Discussion:
Global warming! - Calling Al Gore to Denver!
(too old to reply)
Ms My Rights
2006-12-03 03:01:44 UTC
Permalink
We should get Al Gore to come out to Denver tomorrow morning at 4 AM and
give a speech about what an urgent emergency "global warming" is. He
should give it in Denver's city park, where the temp is supposed to be 5
degrees at that time, and there's still 6" of snow on the ground.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR RULERS!
If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote wouldn't be
that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t slavery,
like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee relationships, while
not defining things as slavery that are slavery, like taxation?
Kingfish
2006-12-03 14:53:00 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 21:01:44 -0600, Ms My Rights
Post by Ms My Rights
We should get Al Gore to come out to Denver tomorrow morning at 4 AM and
give a speech about what an urgent emergency "global warming" is. He
should give it in Denver's city park, where the temp is supposed to be 5
degrees at that time, and there's still 6" of snow on the ground.
While the NE US is having one of its warmest, dryest autumns on record.
They're still mowing the grass around Boston, not a flake of snow
in New England.

From the NWS Denver:

November 2006 sets all time high temperature record for Denver. Precipitation
returns to below normal after October finished above normal. Snowfall was
also below normal and both the annual snowfall and precipitation are both
below normal. Denver’s annual moisture through November 2006 is tied with the
same time frame in 2002...the driest year in Denver weather history.

With every post, you demonstrate how incredibly stupid and short-sighted you
are, Melissa.
Daniel Packman
2006-12-03 16:54:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
We should get Al Gore to come out to Denver tomorrow morning at 4 AM and
give a speech about what an urgent emergency "global warming" is. He
should give it in Denver's city park, where the temp is supposed to be 5
degrees at that time, and there's still 6" of snow on the ground.
Are you implying that global warming is a hoax because
of a locally cold day?
Ms My Rights
2006-12-03 23:07:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
We should get Al Gore to come out to Denver tomorrow morning at 4 AM
and give a speech about what an urgent emergency "global warming" is.
He should give it in Denver's city park, where the temp is supposed
to be 5 degrees at that time, and there's still 6" of snow on the
ground.
Are you implying that global warming is a hoax because
of a locally cold day?
Saying that man causes global warming is a hoax perpetrated by
government agencies that want funding to keep people panicked about it.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Daniel Packman
2006-12-04 05:56:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
We should get Al Gore to come out to Denver tomorrow morning at 4 AM
and give a speech about what an urgent emergency "global warming" is.
He should give it in Denver's city park, where the temp is supposed
to be 5 degrees at that time, and there's still 6" of snow on the
ground.
Are you implying that global warming is a hoax because
of a locally cold day?
Saying that man causes global warming is a hoax perpetrated by
government agencies that want funding to keep people panicked about it.
I'm sure readers of your post will give it all the consideration
it deserves.
Ms My Rights
2006-12-04 19:18:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
We should get Al Gore to come out to Denver tomorrow morning at 4 AM
and give a speech about what an urgent emergency "global warming" is.
He should give it in Denver's city park, where the temp is supposed
to be 5 degrees at that time, and there's still 6" of snow on the
ground.
Are you implying that global warming is a hoax because
of a locally cold day?
Saying that man causes global warming is a hoax perpetrated by
government agencies that want funding to keep people panicked about it.
I'm sure readers of your post will give it all the consideration
it deserves.
Yes, you're an ivory tower government employee snob and no one should
listen to anyone but you "authorties" on the issue.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Kingfish
2006-12-05 00:07:06 UTC
Permalink
Hey Mel, how did you even know that it snowed with your head
so far up your ass?
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 00:12:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kingfish
Hey Mel, how did you even know that it snowed with your head
so far up your ass?
Go away Sam. PLONK!
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR RULERS!
If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote wouldn't be
that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t slavery,
like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee relationships, while
not defining things as slavery that are slavery, like taxation?
Daniel Packman
2006-12-05 06:10:10 UTC
Permalink
......
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
Are you implying that global warming is a hoax because
of a locally cold day?
Saying that man causes global warming is a hoax perpetrated by
government agencies that want funding to keep people panicked about
it.
Post by Daniel Packman
I'm sure readers of your post will give it all the consideration
it deserves.
Yes, you're an ivory tower government employee snob and no one should
listen to anyone but you "authorties" on the issue.
No need to rely on external authority of any sort. Just do the math.
And the physics. And the fluid mechanics. This means about two years
of graduate level physics and applied math. Then we can talk.
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 06:41:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
......
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
Are you implying that global warming is a hoax because
of a locally cold day?
Saying that man causes global warming is a hoax perpetrated by
government agencies that want funding to keep people panicked about
it.
Post by Daniel Packman
I'm sure readers of your post will give it all the consideration
it deserves.
Yes, you're an ivory tower government employee snob and no one should
listen to anyone but you "authorties" on the issue.
No need to rely on external authority of any sort. Just do the math.
And the physics. And the fluid mechanics. This means about two years
of graduate level physics and applied math. Then we can talk.
I told you that I'd concede that global warming may be going on, but you
can't prove that man is causing it. Address that.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Daniel Packman
2006-12-05 07:42:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
No need to rely on external authority of any sort. Just do the math.
And the physics. And the fluid mechanics. This means about two years
of graduate level physics and applied math. Then we can talk.
I told you that I'd concede that global warming may be going on, but you
can't prove that man is causing it. Address that.
I think the wikipedia article sums up the subject currently:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy

In other words, the current scientific consensus is that global
warming is real and largely human caused. This consensus is broad
and extends over scientific groups in man countries.
The specific amount of CO2 increase in the atmosphere agrees well
with global fossil fuel use.
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 19:59:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
No need to rely on external authority of any sort. Just do the
math. And the physics. And the fluid mechanics. This means about
two years of graduate level physics and applied math. Then we can
talk.
I told you that I'd concede that global warming may be going on, but
you can't prove that man is causing it. Address that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy
In other words, the current scientific consensus is that global
warming is real and largely human caused. This consensus is broad
and extends over scientific groups in man countries.
The specific amount of CO2 increase in the atmosphere agrees well
with global fossil fuel use.
This seems to be a matter of religion to the liberals. There's no proof
that it's man made.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 20:02:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
No need to rely on external authority of any sort. Just do the
math. And the physics. And the fluid mechanics. This means about
two years of graduate level physics and applied math. Then we can
talk.
I told you that I'd concede that global warming may be going on, but
you can't prove that man is causing it. Address that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy
In other words, the current scientific consensus is that global
warming is real and largely human caused. This consensus is broad
and extends over scientific groups in man countries.
The specific amount of CO2 increase in the atmosphere agrees well
with global fossil fuel use.
This seems to be a matter of religion to the liberals. There's no proof
that it's man made.
But that being said, I'm all for building enough safe clean nuclear
plants to power this whole country. Why are the Democrats and liberals
still stonewalling it? It could be quickly done if your side would stop
that, but indeed the Democrats and liberals have been opposing any and
all actual workable alternative energy solutions, and harping on the
ones that can't and won't ever work.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Daniel Packman
2006-12-05 21:11:12 UTC
Permalink
.....
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
In other words, the current scientific consensus is that global
warming is real and largely human caused. This consensus is broad
and extends over scientific groups in man countries.
The specific amount of CO2 increase in the atmosphere agrees well
with global fossil fuel use.
This seems to be a matter of religion to the liberals. There's no proof
that it's man made.
What do you base your statement on? Could you explain in detail
your CO2 budget calculations and how you account for the apparent
increased human source? Are you using currently accepted absorption
profiles for CO2 or have you done fundamental work in the lab that
improves on this? Are you basing your work on using one of the many
modern global climate models or have you developed your own? If so,
have you rigorously validated this model? This last step normally
takes several years.
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 21:55:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
.....
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
In other words, the current scientific consensus is that global
warming is real and largely human caused. This consensus is broad
and extends over scientific groups in man countries.
The specific amount of CO2 increase in the atmosphere agrees well
with global fossil fuel use.
This seems to be a matter of religion to the liberals. There's no proof
that it's man made.
What do you base your statement on? Could you explain in detail
your CO2 budget calculations and how you account for the apparent
increased human source? Are you using currently accepted absorption
profiles for CO2 or have you done fundamental work in the lab that
improves on this? Are you basing your work on using one of the many
modern global climate models or have you developed your own? If so,
have you rigorously validated this model? This last step normally
takes several years.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1350746/posts

The global warming scam
Asia Times ^ | 02.25.05 | Derek Kelly, PhD

Posted on 02/25/2005 12:02:42 AM PST by Dr. Marten

The global warming scam
By Derek Kelly, PhD

Scam, noun: a swindle, a fraudulent arrangement.

A chronology of climate change
During most of the last billion years the Earth did not have permanent
ice sheets. Nevertheless, at times large areas of the globe were covered
with vast sheets of ice. Such times are known as glaciations. In the
past 2 million to 3 million years, the temperature of the Earth has
changed (warmed or cooled) at least 17 times, some say 33, with
glaciations that last about 100,000 years interrupted by warm periods
that last about 10,000 years.

The last glaciation began 70,000 years ago and ended about 10,000 years
ago. The Earth was a lot colder than it is now; snow and ice had
accumulated on a lot of the land, glaciers existed on large areas and
the sea levels were lower.

15,000 years ago: The last glaciation reaches a peak, with continental
glaciers that cover a lot of the sub-polar and polar areas of the land
areas of Earth. In North America, all of New England and all of the
Great Lakes area, most of Ohio, Indiana, Minnesota and the North
Dakotas, lie under ice sheets hundreds of meters thick. More than 37
million cubic kilometers of ice was tied up in these global sheets of
ice. The average temperature on the surface of the Earth is estimated to
have been cooler by approximately 6 degrees Celsius than currently. The
sea level was more than 90 meters lower than currently.

15,000 years ago to 6,000 years ago: Global warming begins. The sheets
of ice melt, and sea levels rise. Some heat source causes approximately
37 million cubic kilometers of ice to melt in approximately 9,000 years.
Around 9,500 years ago, the last of the Northern European sheets of ice
leave Scandinavia. Around 7,500 years ago, the last of the American
sheets of ice leave Canada. This warming is neither stable nor the same
everywhere. There are periods when mountain glaciers advance, and
periods when they withdraw. These climatic changes vary extensively from
place to place, with some areas affected while others are not. The
tendency of warming is global and obvious, but very uneven. The causes
of this period of warming are unknown.

8,000 years ago to 4,000 years ago: About 6,000 years ago, temperatures
on the surface of Earth are about 3 degrees warmer than currently. The
Arctic Ocean is ice-free, and mountain glaciers have disappeared from
the mountains of Norway and the Alps in Europe, and from the Rocky
Mountains of the United States and Canada. The ocean of the world is
some three meters higher than currently. A lot of the present desert of
the Sahara has a more humid, savannah-like climate, with giraffes and
savannah fauna species.

4,000 years ago to AD 900: Global cooling begins. The Arctic Ocean
freezes over, mountain glaciers form once more in the Rocky Mountains,
in Norway and in the Alps. The Black Sea freezes over several times, and
ice forms on the Nile in Egypt. Northern Europe gets a lot wetter, and
the marshes develop again in previously dry areas. The sea level drops
to approximately its present level. The temperatures on the surface of
the Earth are about 0.5-1 degree cooler than at present. The causes of
this period of cooling are unknown.

AD 1000 to 1500: This period has quick, but uneven, warming of the
climate of the Northern Hemisphere. The North Atlantic becomes ice-free
and Norse exploration as far as North America takes place. The Norse
colonies in Greenland even export crop surpluses to Scandinavia. Wine
grapes grow in southern Britain. The temperatures are from 3-8 degrees
warmer than currently. The period lasts only a brief 500 years. By the
year 1500, it has vanished. The Earth experiences as much warming
between the 11th and the 13th century as is now predicted by global-
warming scientists for the next century. The causes of this period of
warming are unknown.

1430 to 1880: This is a period of the fast but uneven cooling of
Northern Hemisphere climates. Norwegian glaciers advance to their most
distant extension in post-glacial times. The northern forests disappear,
to be replaced with tundra. Severe winters characterize a lot of Europe
and North America. The channels and rivers get colder, the snows get
heavy, and the summers cool and short. The temperatures on the surface
of the world are about 0.5-1.5 degrees cooler than present. In the
United States, 1816 is known as the "year with no summer". Snow falls in
New England in June. The widespread failure of crops and deaths due to
hypothermia are common. The causes of this period of cooling are
unknown.

1880 to 1940: A period of warming. The mountain glaciers recede and the
ice in the Arctic Ocean begins to melt again. The causes of this period
of warming are unknown.

1940 to 1977: Cooling period. The temperatures are cooler than
currently. Mountain glaciers recede, and some begin to advance. The
tabloids inform us of widespread catastrophes due to the "New
Glaciation". The causes of this period of cooling are unknown.

1977 to present: Warming period. The summer of 2003 is said to be the
warmest one since the Middle Ages. The tabloids notify us of widespread
catastrophes due to "global warming". The causes of warming are
discovered - humanity and its carbon-dioxide-generating fossil-fuel use
and deforestation.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Daniel Packman
2006-12-05 23:34:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
What do you base your statement on? Could you explain in detail
your CO2 budget calculations and how you account for the apparent
increased human source? Are you using currently accepted absorption
profiles for CO2 or have you done fundamental work in the lab that
improves on this? Are you basing your work on using one of the many
modern global climate models or have you developed your own? If so,
have you rigorously validated this model? This last step normally
takes several years.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1350746/posts
The global warming scam
Asia Times ^ | 02.25.05 | Derek Kelly, PhD
Posted on 02/25/2005 12:02:42 AM PST by Dr. Marten
The global warming scam
By Derek Kelly, PhD
Nice example of non-scientific paper filled with generalties
and no measurements and numbers. But then again, a Phd in
computer science isn't necessarily going to have the background
needed to address a complex scientific question. Some letters to
the editor in the same Asia Times point out some of his obvious
mistakes, such as some climate variability he cites is clearly
related to volcanism.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/letters_14.html
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 16:22:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
What do you base your statement on? Could you explain in detail
your CO2 budget calculations and how you account for the apparent
increased human source? Are you using currently accepted absorption
profiles for CO2 or have you done fundamental work in the lab that
improves on this? Are you basing your work on using one of the many
modern global climate models or have you developed your own? If so,
have you rigorously validated this model? This last step normally
takes several years.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1350746/posts
The global warming scam
Asia Times ^ | 02.25.05 | Derek Kelly, PhD
Posted on 02/25/2005 12:02:42 AM PST by Dr. Marten
The global warming scam
By Derek Kelly, PhD
Nice example of non-scientific paper filled with generalties
and no measurements and numbers. But then again, a Phd in
computer science isn't necessarily going to have the background
needed to address a complex scientific question. Some letters to
the editor in the same Asia Times point out some of his obvious
mistakes, such as some climate variability he cites is clearly
related to volcanism.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/letters_14.html
Do tell...like say SEA FLOOR volcanism????


http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/southeast_asia/kavachi.html

March 30, 2004

A recent news release stated that volcanic activity was observed on
March 15 at Kavachi; this activity follows a long period of quiescence.
This information was summarized from the GVP/USGS Weekly Volcanic
Activity Report
November 25, 2003

During an eruptive cycle, a 15 m-high island formed at Kavachi. By the
16th, though, the summit had reduced to ~32 m below sea level. For the
first time in 4 years, no evidence of volcanic activity was observed.

This information was summarized from the GVP/USGS Weekly Volcanic
Activity Report

January 22, 2002

There were explosive eruptions that occurred daily during November 27th
to December 13th. On January 13th, volcanic debris and gas bubbles were
seen rising up from the submarine volcano. This activity was more
vigorous than similar activity that was seen in December of 2001. This
activity was also accompanied by frequent loud noises.

This information was summarized from the Smithsonian Institution's
Preliminary Notices of Volcanic Activity.

May 26, 2000

On 14 May, a scientists on the CSIRO research vessel Franklin arrived at
the Kavachi Seamount location and were able to document a new phase of
island building eruptive activity. On this date, eruptions ejected ash
and incandescent blocks of lava up to 70 m above sea level, and
sulfurous steam plumes mushroomed to 500 m. The Kavachi Seamount had
been dormant for 9 years. Located in the Solomon Island chain of
volcanoes, the Kavachi Seamount is only 30 km from the boundary of the
Indian and Australian tectonic plates. A roughly conical feature rising
from a seafloor depth of 1100 m, it is about eight kilometers in
diameter at its base and has produced ephemeral islands at least twice
in the past century. The peak of the volcano is forming a sandy ashen
beach two meters below sea level.

This information was summarized from Smithsonian Institution's
Preliminary Notices of Volcanic Activity.

http://www.climatecentral.org/

er since the 1970s, we have heard that buring fossil fuels is changing
our climate. In the 1970s, we heard that fossil fuels were creating dust
in the atmosphere and therefore, blocking sun energy. Now we are hearing
that CO2 'traps' heat. This is true, CO2 does lead to a warmer climate
but because Earth is so complex we can not simply say X amount of CO2
will result in X amount of warming. The media makes the problem worse by
only reporting on the extremists and their so called "research".

There are many things that we do not understand as of yet. Solar
activity is probably the main source of the warming we have been seeing
the past 100 years. As solar activity rose in the late 1800s/early
1900s, so did the temperature. Maybe we should have invented the
automobile in the mid 1950s so that we could have seen Earth was on a
warming trend without cars. One that looks at the 'hockey stick'
temperature graph that was presented to the public looks like fossil
fuels must be the cause. When we look at solar activity and the global
temperature, we can see that it follows very closely.

What caused people to look into this further was that the Earth
suddenly cooled from the 1940s till the 1970s. Why? Wasnt CO2 rising
then too? This is a problem with the theory that this warming trend is
all because of CO2 that you hear about on the media all the time. You
will never hear this on the global warming news stories. Solar activity
can explain why the Earth's temperature fell though.

We keep hearing these reports that we have reached some sort of
"tipping point". No we haven't. If the solar activity were to take a
dive tomorrow, the temperatures would cool significantly. Solar activity
has overpowered any effect that CO2 has had before and it most likely
will again. In fact, we should be more afraid of a cooling trend because
of a solar minimum that will peak in 2030 that could be fairly large. As
we saw from a minor solar minimum in the mid 1900s, the Earth suddenly
started to cool. If we were to have even a medium sized solar minimum,
we could be looking at a lot more bad effects than 'global warming'
would have had.

Outgoing Longwave Radiation (OLR) seems to follow solar activity
very well and it should. OLR is the measure of how much energy is going
into space from Earth. When solar activity dipped in the mid 1900s, OLR
also did. We went into a global -OLR phase, and most noticibly the north
pole and Canada were in extremely negative OLR during this period. We
started taking pictures of the north pole's ice cover in 1978. This was
about the same time as solar activity started to rise and the Earth was
entering a global +OLR state. Looking at ice records from 1978 to
present isn't really fair. When you look at it, you are looking at the
end of a extreme -OLR phase in the north pole and low solar activity. Of
course there would be more ice then than there is now. Now you may be
wondering why should OLR be connected to solar activity. Its simple. If
solar activity is lower, there should be less energy going into Earth,
causing a cooling effect. It would make sense then that there would be
less energy going out of Earth. This should be a basic principal. Of
course, there are other factors such as cloud cover that would effect
the OLR. In a sense, OLR is the measure of not only how much energy is
going out of Earth, but also how much energy is going into Earth. When
doing research, though, we need to take cloud cover, ice cover and etc.
in to affect. Clearly OLR has been following solar activity though. It
is important to know that solar activity started to rise in the late
1970s/early 1980s.



Its interesting to know that the areas that had such -OLR
from 1948 to 1978 are also some of the areas that have warmed so much
since 1980. For example, the north pole and western Canada. Some will
say solar activity took a dip in the 1990s, whats going on? Well, for
one, the dip is so small that its possible that it is too minor to stop
the ball from rolling upward. Its also important to know that the past 6
years, the global temperature has remained steady. Could this be because
of the minor dip in solar activity? Its very possible.

This brings us to another very important point. Which
temperature record should be believe? Here is an example of what I'm
trying to get at. For March, UAH MSU says we were +.192C above normal,
NCDC says we were +.56C above normal, CRU says we were +.305C above
normal. Which one is right?

Its hard to find a article on global warmings that doesnt say
"projected" or another word that means projected. How can we possibly
believe we can predict the future using a climate model. We do not
understand a lot of what goes on. The answer is that we can not believe
what we see in these models because a lot of the variables are missing.

I'm not saying that Earth won't continue to warm and that we
are causing it, but what I'm saying is that we can't be so sure. My
personal belief is that solar activity and other natural factors are the
main cause and CO2 is only a small part of this.
Daniel Packman
2006-12-15 18:38:27 UTC
Permalink
In article <zZzgh.491365$%***@fe07.news.easynews.com>,
Sam Brown <***@nospam.net> wrote:
.......
Post by Sam Brown
http://www.climatecentral.org/
er since the 1970s, we have heard that buring fossil fuels is changing
our climate.
"We have heard"? Popular impressions are not the stuff of science.
This site seems content-free.

In the 1970s, we heard that fossil fuels were creating dust
Post by Sam Brown
in the atmosphere and therefore, blocking sun energy. Now we are hearing
that CO2 'traps' heat.
Both effects have been well known. The reporting here seems to suggest
that the lead article in Time or Newsweek defines commonly accepted
research. Wrong.
Post by Sam Brown
There are many things that we do not understand as of yet. Solar
activity is probably the main source of the warming we have been seeing
the past 100 years. ....
The recent research actually suggest that solar activity is not
a significant effect. A review paper that gives a good summary of
the present understanding is

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v443/n7108/abs/nature05072.html
Post by Sam Brown
..... My
personal belief is that solar activity and other natural factors are the
main cause and CO2 is only a small part of this.
Well thanks for sharing. I'm sure your opinion will be given all
the consideration it is due.
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 20:21:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
.......
Post by Sam Brown
http://www.climatecentral.org/
er since the 1970s, we have heard that buring fossil fuels is changing
our climate.
"We have heard"? Popular impressions are not the stuff of science.
Popular impressions led men to believe the world may not have bene flat.
Post by Daniel Packman
This site seems content-free.
Your gubmint stooge agenda so noted.
Post by Daniel Packman
In the 1970s, we heard that fossil fuels were creating dust
Post by Sam Brown
in the atmosphere and therefore, blocking sun energy. Now we are hearing
that CO2 'traps' heat.
Both effects have been well known. The reporting here seems to suggest
that the lead article in Time or Newsweek defines commonly accepted
research. Wrong.
Post by Sam Brown
There are many things that we do not understand as of yet. Solar
activity is probably the main source of the warming we have been seeing
the past 100 years. ....
The recent research actually suggest that solar activity is not
a significant effect. A review paper that gives a good summary of
the present understanding is
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v443/n7108/abs/nature05072.html
Nature is only a popular "journal"
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
..... My
personal belief is that solar activity and other natural factors are the
main cause and CO2 is only a small part of this.
Well thanks for sharing. I'm sure your opinion will be given all
the consideration it is due.
Are you replying to the author?

You might wish to email him personally.
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 21:56:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
.....
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
In other words, the current scientific consensus is that global
warming is real and largely human caused. This consensus is broad
and extends over scientific groups in man countries.
The specific amount of CO2 increase in the atmosphere agrees well
with global fossil fuel use.
This seems to be a matter of religion to the liberals. There's no proof
that it's man made.
What do you base your statement on? Could you explain in detail
your CO2 budget calculations and how you account for the apparent
increased human source? Are you using currently accepted absorption
profiles for CO2 or have you done fundamental work in the lab that
improves on this? Are you basing your work on using one of the many
modern global climate models or have you developed your own? If so,
have you rigorously validated this model? This last step normally
takes several years.
The global warming scam
Melanie Phillips ^ | 09 January 2004 | Melanie Phillips's Diary

Posted on 01/10/2004 6:01:06 PM PST by Lando Lincoln

The global warming scam

The British government's chief scientific adviser, Sir David King, has
said that global warming is a more serious threat to the world than
terrorism. His remarks are utter balderdash from start to finish and
illustrate the truly lamentable decline of science into ideological
propaganda.

Sir David says the Bush administration should not dismiss global warming
because: 1) the ten hottest years on record started in 1991 2) sea
levels are rising 3) ice caps are melting and 4) the 'causal link'
between man-made emissions and global warming is well established.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong. There is no such evidence. The whole
thing is a global scam. There is no firm evidence that warming is
happening; even if it is, it is most likely to have natural, not man-
made causes; carbon dioxide, supposedly the culprit, makes up such a
tiny fraction of the atmosphere that even if it were to quadruple, the
effect on climate would be negligible; and just about every one of the
eco-doomster stories that curdle our blood every five minutes is either
speculative, ahistorical or scientifically illiterate.

To take a few examples from Sir David's litany.

1) Sea levels are rising. As this article explains, this claim is not
the result of observable data. Like so much of the global warming
industry, it is the result of frail computer modelling using dodgy or
incomplete data. It is therefore not an observed value, but a wholly
artificial model construct. Furthermore, the data fed into the computer
is drawn from the atypical North Atlantic basin, ignoring the seas
around Australia where levels have remained pretty static. And anyway,
as this article explains, sea level rises have nothing to do with warmer
climate. Sea levels rose during the last ice age. Warming can actually
slow down sea level rise.

2) Ice caps are melting. Some are, some aren't. Some are breaking up, as
is normal. But some are actually expanding, as in the Antarctic where
the ice sheet is growing, as this article points out. The bit of the
Antarctic that is breaking up, the Larsen ice-shelf, which has been
causing foaming hysteria among eco-doomsters, won't increase sea levels
because it has already displaced its own weight in the sea.

3) The hottest years on record started in 1991. Which records? The
European climate in the Middle Ages was two degrees hotter than it is
now. They grew vines in Northumberland, for heaven's sake. Then there
was the Little Ice Age, which lasted until about 1880. So the 0.6%
warming since then is part of a pretty normal pattern, and nothing for
any normal person to get excited about.

4) The causal link is well established. Totally false. It is simply
loudly asserted. Virtually all the scare stuff comes from computer
modelling, which is simply inadequate to factor in all the --
literally-- millions of variables that make up climate change. If you
put rubbish in, you get rubbish out.

That's why this week's earlier eco-scare story, that more than a million
species will become extinct as a result of global warming over the next
50 years, is risible. All that means is that someone has put into the
computer the global warming scenario, and the computer has calculated
what would happen on the basis of that premise. But -duh! -the premise
is totally unproven. The real scientific evidence is that -- we just
don't know; and the theories so far, linking man, carbon dioxide and
climate warming. are specious. There's some seriously bad science going
on in the environmentalist camp.

After Kyoto, one of the most eminent scientists involved in the National
Academy of Sciences study on climate change, Richard Lindzen, professor
of meteorology at MIT, blew the whistle on the politicised rubbish that
was being spouted. Since his article was so significant, I reproduce it
in full here:

'Last week the National Academy of Sciences released a report on climate
change, prepared in response to a request from the White House, that was
depicted in the press as an implicit endorsement of the Kyoto Protocol.
CNN's Michelle Mitchell was typical of the coverage when she declared
that the report represented "a unanimous decision that global warming is
real, is getting worse, and is due to man. There is no wiggle room."

'As one of 11 scientists who prepared the report, I can state that this
is simply untrue. For starters, the NAS never asks that all participants
agree to all elements of a report, but rather that the report represent
the span of views. This the full report did, making clear that there is
no consensus, unanimous or otherwise, about long-term climate trends and
what causes them.

'As usual, far too much public attention was paid to the hastily
prepared summary rather than to the body of the report. The summary
began with a zinger--that greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth's
atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air
temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise, etc., before
following with the necessary qualifications. For example, the full text
noted that 20 years was too short a period for estimating long-term
trends, but the summary forgot to mention this.

'Our primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and agreement,
the science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that
global mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than it was
a century ago; (2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen
over the past two centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse
gas whose increase is likely to warm the earth (one of many, the most
important being water vapor and clouds).

'But--and I cannot stress this enough--we are not in a position to
confidently attribute past climate change to carbon dioxide or to
forecast what the climate will be in the future. That is to say,
contrary to media impressions, agreement with the three basic statements
tells us almost nothing relevant to policy discussions.

'One reason for this uncertainty is that, as the report states, the
climate is always changing; change is the norm. Two centuries ago, much
of the Northern Hemisphere was emerging from a little ice age. A
millennium ago, during the Middle Ages, the same region was in a warm
period. Thirty years ago, we were concerned with global cooling.

'Distinguishing the small recent changes in global mean temperature from
the natural variability, which is unknown, is not a trivial task. All
attempts so far make the assumption that existing computer climate
models simulate natural variability, but I doubt that anyone really
believes this assumption.

'We simply do not know what relation, if any, exists between global
climate changes and water vapor, clouds, storms, hurricanes, and other
factors, including regional climate changes, which are generally much
larger than global changes and not correlated with them. Nor do we know
how to predict changes in greenhouse gases. This is because we cannot
forecast economic and technological change over the next century, and
also because there are many man-made substances whose properties and
levels are not well known, but which could be comparable in importance
to carbon dioxide.

'What we do is know that a doubling of carbon dioxide by itself would
produce only a modest temperature increase of one degree Celsius. Larger
projected increases depend on "amplification" of the carbon dioxide by
more important, but poorly modeled, greenhouse gases, clouds and water
vapor.

'The press has frequently tied the existence of climate change to a need
for Kyoto. The NAS panel did not address this question. My own view,
consistent with the panel's work, is that the Kyoto Protocol would not
result in a substantial reduction in global warming. Given the
difficulties in significantly limiting levels of atmospheric carbon
dioxide, a more effective policy might well focus on other greenhouse
substances whose potential for reducing global warming in a short time
may be greater.

'The panel was finally asked to evaluate the work of the United
Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, focusing on the
Summary for Policymakers, the only part ever read or quoted. The Summary
for Policymakers, which is seen as endorsing Kyoto, is commonly
presented as the consensus of thousands of the world's foremost climate
scientists. Within the confines of professional courtesy, the NAS panel
essentially concluded that the IPCC's Summary for Policymakers does not
provide suitable guidance for the U.S. government.

'The full IPCC report is an admirable description of research activities
in climate science, but it is not specifically directed at policy. The
Summary for Policymakers is, but it is also a very different document.
It represents a consensus of government representatives (many of whom
are also their nations' Kyoto representatives), rather than of
scientists. The resulting document has a strong tendency to disguise
uncertainty, and conjures up some scary scenarios for which there is no
evidence.

'Science, in the public arena, is commonly used as a source of authority
with which to bludgeon political opponents and propagandize uninformed
citizens. This is what has been done with both the reports of the IPCC
and the NAS. It is a reprehensible practice that corrodes our ability to
make rational decisions. A fairer view of the science will show that
there is still a vast amount of uncertainty--far more than advocates of
Kyoto would like to acknowledge--and that the NAS report has hardly
ended the debate. Nor was it meant to.'

As Professor Philip Stott wrote in the Wall Street Journal on April 2
2001:

'"Global warming" was invented in 1988, when it replaced two earlier
myths of an imminent plunge into another Ice Age and the threat of a
nuclear winter. The new myth was seen to encapsulate a whole range of
other myths and attitudes that had developed in the 1960s and 1970s,
including "limits to growth," sustainability, neo-Malthusian fears of a
population time bomb, pollution, anticorporate anti-Americanism, and an
Al Gore-like analysis of human greed disturbing the ecological harmony
and balance of the earth.

'Initially, in Europe, the new myth was embraced by both right and left.
The right was concerned with breaking the power of traditional trade
unions, such as the coal miners -- the labor force behind a major source
of carbon-dioxide emissions -- and promoting the development of nuclear
power. Britain's Hadley Center for Climate Prediction and Research was
established at the personal instigation of none other than Margaret
Thatcher.

'The left, by contrast, was obsessed with population growth,
industrialization, the car, development and globalization. Today, the
narrative of global warming has evolved into an emblematic issue for
authoritarian greens, who employ a form of language that has been
characterized by the physicist P.H. Borcherds as "the hysterical
subjunctive." And it is this grammatical imperative that is now
dominating the European media when they complain about Mr. Bush, the
U.S., and their willful denial of the true faith.'

Go figure.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Daniel Packman
2006-12-05 23:37:54 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@216.196.97.142>,
Ms My Rights <***@individual.yep> wrote:
.......
Post by Ms My Rights
As Professor Philip Stott wrote in the Wall Street Journal on April 2
'"Global warming" was invented in 1988,.......
Modelling has become more accurate as time goes on. The confidence
of results back in 2001 was much less than today.
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 21:58:49 UTC
Permalink
http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=185

January 12, 2004
The global warming fraud

Daily Mail, January 12 2004

Daffodils are on sale in some of our shops unseasonably early. Such
evidence that spring seems to be arriving before winter has departed,
along with excessively hot summer temperatures, has convinced many that
global warming is well under way.

Unease that something funny is happening to the weather is reinforced by
constant reports claiming imminent environmental doom, such as the
article in Nature magazine last week claiming global warming will cause
more than one million species to die out over the next fifty years.

In another article in the journal Science the government’s Chief
Scientific Adviser, Sir David King, claims global warming is an even
more serious threat to the world than terrorism. He maintains that the
ten hottest years on record started in 1991, that global warming is
causing the ice caps to melt and the seas to rise, and that mankind’s
activities in producing carbon dioxide have been proved to be the cause.

With all due respect to Sir David’s eminence, every one of these claims
is utter garbage. What science actually tells us is that we just don’t
know whether global warming is happening and, if it is, why. Much of the
research behind this theory is specious, anti-historical and
scientifically illiterate. If the world’s climate is indeed warming up
beyond normal patterns, this could be due to natural reasons rather than
the actions of mankind.

It is not true that the seas are generally rising. Some are; some
aren’t. The claim is based on the atypical North Atlantic, ignoring the
seas around Australia where levels have remained pretty static. Indeed,
around parts of New Zealand and elsewhere they are falling.

What’s more, there’s no correlation between rises in climate temperature
and sea levels. During the ‘Little Ice Age’ in the Middle Ages, sea
levels rose; and between 1900 and 1940, when temperatures rose, sea
levels actually dropped.

The ice-caps tell a similar story. Some are melting; some are not. The
Larsen ice shelf in the Antarctic is breaking up, but most of the
Antarctic ice is increasing.

Then there’s the claim that the climate is now the hottest on record.
But this statistical record only goes back a few centuries, if that. Yet
there’s plenty of other evidence that the climate in Europe was warmer
than now by at least 2 degrees in 1100, when vines grew in
Northumberland and farmers settled in Greenland. Since this was followed
by the Little Ice Age which lasted until about 1880, it’s hardly
surprising - and surely a cause for rejoicing - that since then the
climate has warmed up by about 0.6 degrees, well within normal patterns.

As for the presumed villain of the piece carbon dioxide, this makes up
such a tiny fraction of the atmosphere that even if it doubled it would
make little difference to the climate. And like sea levels, it doesn’t
correlate with climate change. Historically, it has increased hundreds
of years after the climate has warmed up. Between 1940 and 1975, when
industrial activity - which produces carbon dioxide -rose rapidly, the
climate actually cooled.

Far from being proved, the claim of man-made global warming is a global
fraud. Instead of being drawn from observable facts, it is based on
computer modelling which churns out wholly artificial - and eminently
manipulable - visions of the world.

Computers can only process the information fed into them. This is an
inadequate procedure, not least because climate change is affected by
billions of variables which are beyond any computer programme. The sea
level ‘rise’, for instance, omits the full influence of certain crucial
natural meteorological changes. And if the disaster scenarios of global
warming are fed into the computer as a premise, it is hardly surprising
that it will then ‘predict’ the disappearance of species as a
consequence.

In other words, if you feed rubbish into a computer, you get rubbish
out.

The claim that there’s a scientific consensus behind global warming is
also utterly bogus. In 1992, more than 40 atmospheric scientists said
the theory was highly uncertain and warned against using theoretical
climate models which they said were not supported by existing records.

In 1997, dozens of meteorologists, geologists, atmospheric scientists
and other experts said global warming was based solely on unproven
scientific theories and imperfect computer models.

In 1998, 18,000 scientists signed the Oregon petition which again
criticised this ‘flawed’ research, said historic evidence showed that
increased atmospheric carbon dioxide was environmentally helpful, and
predicted that the 1997 Kyoto agreement to reduce industrial emissions
would keep the developing world trapped in poverty.

One of the world’s most eminent meteorologists, Professor Richard
Lindzen, has also protested that while the science behind the Kyoto
protocol was suitably equivocal about global warming, the document’s
highly politicised summary - the part actually being used to force
reduced industrial activity onto the western world - was written instead
by government representatives, who had conjured up ’scary scenarios for
which there is no evidence’.

Indeed, global warming has little to do with science and everything to
do with politics. Those scientists who endorse the theory command the
lion’s share of government-funded research grants. Since the global
warming prediction emerged in the late 1980s, climate science funding
has gone through the roof.

Scientists know, however, that they won’t get funded unless their
research confirms global warming. Too many enormous reputations would go
down the plug otherwise; too many political agendas depend on the
theory. So global warming has become big business.

This is ironic. For it is yet another variation of left-wing, anti-
American, anti-west ideology which goes hand in hand with anti-
globalisation and the belief that everything done by the industrialised
world is wicked. The agenda to cripple this world is revealed by highly
questionable assumptions made by climate modellers about likely
developments in economics, technology or population movements, which
affect emissions and consequent temperature predictions.

As the Economist recently pointed out, they assume growth rates that are
beyond any historical experience, resulting in predictions of a bizarre
economic future in which the United States stops growing and developing
nations overtake the industrialised world. But that reversal of fortune
is, of course, precisely the objective.

And if anyone objects, they are demonised. As Professor Lindzen has
protested, science is now being used ‘as a source of authority with
which to bludgeon political opponents and propagandize uninformed
citizens’.

Dr Bjorn Lomborg, the Danish statistician who became famous for his book
‘The Sceptical Environmentalist’, paid a heavy price for pointing out
that richer countries were cleaner countries, and observing that the
costs of implementing the Kyoto protocol for less than one year would
provide clean water for every human being on Earth.

For his demolition of the environmental scam, he was vilified across the
globe and accused by a Danish scientific committee of ‘dishonesty’ - a
disgraceful verdict that has now been demolished by a superior committee
that tore into Dr Lomborg’s inquisitors for intellectual inadequacy.

The claim of man-made global warming represents the descent of science
from the pursuit of truth into politicised propaganda. The fact that it
is endorsed by the top scientist in the British government shows how
deep this rot has gone.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 22:01:47 UTC
Permalink
On a recent show about "global warming" they were worrying about the
oceans rising 1/10 inch per year, or 10" over the next 100 years. They
worried about some people living on some Pacific island that were only 3'
above sea level, and what would happen to them.

3' above sea level?! Anyone who lives 3' above sea level is an idiot! Do
these people realize that a medium storm front ( not even a tropical
storm! ) can generate seas that are 6'?!
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR RULERS!
If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote wouldn't be
that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t slavery,
like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee relationships, while
not defining things as slavery that are slavery, like taxation?
Daniel Packman
2006-12-05 23:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
On a recent show about "global warming" they were worrying about the
oceans rising 1/10 inch per year, or 10" over the next 100 years. They
worried about some people living on some Pacific island that were only 3'
above sea level, and what would happen to them.
3' above sea level?! Anyone who lives 3' above sea level is an idiot! Do
these people realize that a medium storm front ( not even a tropical
storm! ) can generate seas that are 6'?!
There are many parts of the US that are in for potential damage with
a 10" rise in ocean height.
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 23:48:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
On a recent show about "global warming" they were worrying about the
oceans rising 1/10 inch per year, or 10" over the next 100 years.
They worried about some people living on some Pacific island that
were only 3' above sea level, and what would happen to them.
3' above sea level?! Anyone who lives 3' above sea level is an idiot!
Do these people realize that a medium storm front ( not even a
tropical storm! ) can generate seas that are 6'?!
There are many parts of the US that are in for potential damage with
a 10" rise in ocean height.
Ok, well like I said, I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt, now
what do we do about it? And when will the liberal Democrats stop
obstructing?
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Daniel Packman
2006-12-06 01:00:33 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@216.196.97.142>,
Ms My Rights <***@individual.yep> wrote:
[....global warming...]
Post by Ms My Rights
Ok, well like I said, I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt, now
what do we do about it? And when will the liberal Democrats stop
obstructing?
If by "liberal democrats" you mean the current administration,
probably not much. They have censored research results and all
but avoided any moves to encourage energy conservation. I hope
this incoming congress will move to increase CAFE, use creative
taxing to encourage conservation and alternative fuels, and explore
alternate energy sources including nuclear. There is a lot to do
on both the short and long term. And there is a lot to do locally
and globally.
Ms My Rights
2006-12-06 03:57:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
[....global warming...]
Post by Ms My Rights
Ok, well like I said, I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt,
now what do we do about it? And when will the liberal Democrats stop
obstructing?
If by "liberal democrats" you mean the current administration,
probably not much. They have censored research results and all
but avoided any moves to encourage energy conservation.
Conservation won't help in a world with an ever-increasing population,
and especially with China industrializing now.

And Dr. Hayden says that conservation won't make much difference at all.
Post by Daniel Packman
I hope
this incoming congress will move to increase CAFE, use creative
taxing to encourage conservation and alternative fuels, and explore
alternate energy sources including nuclear. There is a lot to do
on both the short and long term. And there is a lot to do locally
and globally.
Yeah, we gotta save those folks living on those 3' islands.

I remember panicking when I was a liberal back in the 70's and Omni
Magazine ran an article on global warming, explaining how sea levels
could rise 300 feet above present levels if the ice caps melted. Now
THAT was a scary thought, especially living in south Florida at the
time, at about 15 feet above, with the highest point in the state being
200 feet above. But alas, it proved untrue and I eventually became a
libertarian anyway.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Daniel Packman
2006-12-06 04:13:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
[....global warming...]
Post by Ms My Rights
Ok, well like I said, I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt,
now what do we do about it? And when will the liberal Democrats stop
obstructing?
If by "liberal democrats" you mean the current administration,
probably not much. They have censored research results and all
but avoided any moves to encourage energy conservation.
Conservation won't help in a world with an ever-increasing population,
and especially with China industrializing now.
It certainly will *help*, but population growth and industrialization
of China and India makes the problem that much worse.
Post by Ms My Rights
And Dr. Hayden says that conservation won't make much difference at all.
Sounds like he has a limited understanding of this subject.
If you think energy conservation is so useless, then you
certainly shouldn't pursue even more minor options such as
drilling in ANWR.
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
I hope
this incoming congress will move to increase CAFE, use creative
taxing to encourage conservation and alternative fuels, and explore
alternate energy sources including nuclear. There is a lot to do
on both the short and long term. And there is a lot to do locally
and globally.
Yeah, we gotta save those folks living on those 3' islands.
Just as we need to address the large percentage of human populatin
that lives near sea level near on the coasts.
Post by Ms My Rights
I remember panicking when I was a liberal back in the 70's and Omni
Magazine ran an article on global warming, explaining how sea levels
could rise 300 feet above present levels if the ice caps melted. Now
THAT was a scary thought, especially living in south Florida at the
time, at about 15 feet above, with the highest point in the state being
200 feet above. But alas, it proved untrue and I eventually became a
libertarian anyway.
Don't get your science from popular magazines.
It is to their advantage to exagerate to sell more of
their product.
Ms My Rights
2006-12-06 04:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
[....global warming...]
Post by Ms My Rights
Ok, well like I said, I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt,
now what do we do about it? And when will the liberal Democrats stop
obstructing?
If by "liberal democrats" you mean the current administration,
probably not much. They have censored research results and all
but avoided any moves to encourage energy conservation.
Conservation won't help in a world with an ever-increasing population,
and especially with China industrializing now.
It certainly will *help*, but population growth and industrialization
of China and India makes the problem that much worse.
Post by Ms My Rights
And Dr. Hayden says that conservation won't make much difference at all.
Sounds like he has a limited understanding of this subject.
http://www.energyadvocate.com/

Publisher and editor Dr. Howard Hayden, (for identification only)
Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of Connecticut.

http://www.energyadvocate.com/den_post.htm

http://www.energyadvocate.com/lout_1.htm

"We encourage conservation, but do not regard it as a source of energy.
(Is dieting a source of nutrition?)"
Post by Daniel Packman
If you think energy conservation is so useless, then you
certainly shouldn't pursue even more minor options such as
drilling in ANWR.
I agree with Professor Hayden, it's not useless, but it won't save us
either. Dieting isn't a source of nutrition.

Recently the pundits have said that the U.S. has enormous oil reserves
that are undiscovered, off the coasts and possibly even on land. But
it's a band aid over a cancer, we really need independence of fossil
fuel pollution and the geopolitical mess that comes from dependence on
imports.

We could power the whole country on nuclear, if the obstructionists
would only get out of the way, and tell OPEC to shove their oil where
the sun don't shine.

We should have a PRIVATE accelerated national project to do just that,
aided by removal of all present governmental hinderances.
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
I hope
this incoming congress will move to increase CAFE, use creative
taxing to encourage conservation and alternative fuels, and explore
alternate energy sources including nuclear. There is a lot to do
on both the short and long term. And there is a lot to do locally
and globally.
Yeah, we gotta save those folks living on those 3' islands.
Just as we need to address the large percentage of human populatin
that lives near sea level near on the coasts.
Like I said, present thunder storms, fronts and high tides can raise
seal level a lot more than global warming will over the next 100 years.
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
I remember panicking when I was a liberal back in the 70's and Omni
Magazine ran an article on global warming, explaining how sea levels
could rise 300 feet above present levels if the ice caps melted. Now
THAT was a scary thought, especially living in south Florida at the
time, at about 15 feet above, with the highest point in the state being
200 feet above. But alas, it proved untrue and I eventually became a
libertarian anyway.
Don't get your science from popular magazines.
It is to their advantage to exagerate to sell more of
their product.
As it's yours.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Daniel Packman
2006-12-06 05:35:36 UTC
Permalink
......
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
And Dr. Hayden says that conservation won't make much difference at
all.
Post by Daniel Packman
Sounds like he has a limited understanding of this subject.
http://www.energyadvocate.com/>
"We encourage conservation, but do not regard it as a source of energy.
(Is dieting a source of nutrition?)"
Since he encourages conservation, I wouldn't characterize his
position that it "won't make much difference at all."
....
I agree with Professor Hayden, it's not useless, but it won't save us
either. Dieting isn't a source of nutrition.
Nice bumper sticker, but in the context of supplies and ongoing
consumption, it is just as good as nutrition. If you eat the whole
sandwich instead of spilling half of it on the ground, you do get
to eat more.
Recently the pundits have said that the U.S. has enormous oil reserves
that are undiscovered, off the coasts and possibly even on land. But
it's a band aid over a cancer, we really need independence of fossil
fuel pollution and the geopolitical mess that comes from dependence on
imports.
And this is the most important issue facing us as a nation today.
We could power the whole country on nuclear, if the obstructionists
would only get out of the way, and tell OPEC to shove their oil where
the sun don't shine.
Don't blame "obstructionists". We need oversight.
We should have a PRIVATE accelerated national project to do just that,
aided by removal of all present governmental hinderances.
Private, public or a combination thereof (and considering investment cost
and payback time, it will have to have a public component) oversight and
safety must continue to be addressed. Some of the corners that can be cut
in construction such as lower quality concrete will only be an issue in
many years - long after those who pocketed the money are gone. Nuclear is
only safe in operation when it is done carefully. We also need to address
waste disposal which has no good solution yet.
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 16:07:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Nuclear is
only safe in operation when it is done carefully.
How many accidents has Fwonce had?
Post by Daniel Packman
We also need to address
waste disposal which has no good solution yet.
Blast the shit into outer space then!
Daniel Packman
2006-12-15 18:40:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
Nuclear is
only safe in operation when it is done carefully.
How many accidents has Fwonce had?
Many spelling mistakes, but thankfully no recent nuclear accidents.
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
We also need to address
waste disposal which has no good solution yet.
Blast the shit into outer space then!
Are you making a joke or are you aware of the
increased risks and cost of such a plan?
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 20:28:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
Nuclear is
only safe in operation when it is done carefully.
How many accidents has Fwonce had?
Many spelling mistakes, but thankfully no recent nuclear accidents.
Case closed, if they can build Peugots and power plants with no serious
accidents I guess we have to give it a passing grade.
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
We also need to address
waste disposal which has no good solution yet.
Blast the shit into outer space then!
Are you making a joke or are you aware of the
increased risks and cost of such a plan?
What risks?

We shot a load of nuclear material into Jupiter and nothing catastrophic
happened.

http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/countdown/

The Galileo mission ended when the spacecraft impacted Jupiter on
September 21, 2003 at 18:57 UTC. Galileo's last signal arrived at Earth
at 19:43 UTC. Galileo has been in orbit around Jupiter since December 1995.

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/indexback95.html

NUCLEAR REACTION WHEN GALILEO SPACECRAFT IMPACTS INTO JUPITER IN
SEPTEMBER 2003 UNLIKELY, BUT POSSIBLE "To eliminate any potential that
the spacecraft could someday contaminate Europa, a moon that may harbor
primitive life, Galileo will be directed to fall into Jupiter's
atmosphere on September 21, 2003, when it will plunge into the
Equatorial Zone at 48 km per second." [Approx. 107,000 mph]
Daniel Packman
2006-12-15 23:15:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
We also need to address
waste disposal which has no good solution yet.
Blast the shit into outer space then!
Are you making a joke or are you aware of the
increased risks and cost of such a plan?
What risks?
Rockets fail sometimes.
Shooting stuff into the sun is expensive.
It might be cheaper and safer if we could develop some sort of
magnetic gun that could fire cannisters from the ground. Still,
such a device might never be feasible.

http://learning.berkeley.edu/cipolat/PDF/ISF60/Articles/ShootIt.pdf
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1676131/posts
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 23:38:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
We also need to address
waste disposal which has no good solution yet.
Blast the shit into outer space then!
Are you making a joke or are you aware of the
increased risks and cost of such a plan?
What risks?
Rockets fail sometimes.
So we won't use the Russian or Chinese ones.
Post by Daniel Packman
Shooting stuff into the sun is expensive.
So is ME oil.
Post by Daniel Packman
It might be cheaper and safer if we could develop some sort of
magnetic gun that could fire cannisters from the ground.
I like it!
Post by Daniel Packman
Still,
such a device might never be feasible.
http://learning.berkeley.edu/cipolat/PDF/ISF60/Articles/ShootIt.pdf
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1676131/posts
Why quit trying?

Meantime, launch away dream babies!
Ms My Rights
2006-12-15 23:56:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
We also need to address
waste disposal which has no good solution yet.
Blast the shit into outer space then!
Are you making a joke or are you aware of the
increased risks and cost of such a plan?
What risks?
Rockets fail sometimes.
Shooting stuff into the sun is expensive.
It might be cheaper and safer if we could develop some sort of
magnetic gun that could fire cannisters from the ground. Still,
such a device might never be feasible.
Space elevator. Then just launch it on a slow trajectory towards the
sun. Or drop in into the earth's molten core?

I unserstand that most of it can be recycled into new fuel anyway.
--
Have you watched America: Freedom to Fascism yet?
Free video: http://tinyurl.com/snr7b

IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 23:57:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
We also need to address
waste disposal which has no good solution yet.
Blast the shit into outer space then!
Are you making a joke or are you aware of the
increased risks and cost of such a plan?
What risks?
Rockets fail sometimes.
Shooting stuff into the sun is expensive.
It might be cheaper and safer if we could develop some sort of
magnetic gun that could fire cannisters from the ground. Still,
such a device might never be feasible.
Space elevator. Then just launch it on a slow trajectory towards the
sun. Or drop in into the earth's molten core?
I unserstand that most of it can be recycled into new fuel anyway.
Don't fuck with the core!!!!

Do you want more volcanoes creating more greenhouse gasses and more
global warming????

sheesh....
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 16:09:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Don't get your science from popular magazines.
Why not?

Do you not get your news from popular networks and periodicals?

Is Scientific American a bad resource?
Post by Daniel Packman
It is to their advantage to exagerate to sell more of
their product.
You offer not credible mainstream alternative though, do ya danny?

Ya fucking gubmint shill.
Daniel Packman
2006-12-15 18:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
Don't get your science from popular magazines.
Why not?
Because they are often wrong or present results with such simplification
that their real meaning is unclear. You can read Nature online.
Post by Sam Brown
Do you not get your news from popular networks and periodicals?
The background needed to report and understand socio-political
issues is accessible to many. Even so, the major networks and
periodicals often skimp on background material and present limited
content. One needs to seek out more detailed information.
Post by Sam Brown
Is Scientific American a bad resource?
Better than most popular sources, but no substitute for journals.
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
It is to their advantage to exagerate to sell more of
their product.
You offer not credible mainstream alternative though, do ya danny?
http://www.nature.com
http://www.realclimate.org
http://www.sciencemag.org
Post by Sam Brown
Ya fucking gubmint shill.
Thank you for your reasoned response.
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 20:32:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
Don't get your science from popular magazines.
Why not?
Because they are often wrong or present results with such simplification
that their real meaning is unclear. You can read Nature online.
Is Scientific American not credible?

Discover?

Popular Science?

Prove it.
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Do you not get your news from popular networks and periodicals?
The background needed to report and understand socio-political
issues is accessible to many.
No it's not.

Most folks do not attend the UNSC meetings or read their summaries.
Post by Daniel Packman
Even so, the major networks and
periodicals often skimp on background material and present limited
content. One needs to seek out more detailed information.
One needs to stop dissing the popular scientific reportage in a pique of
insider elitism.
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Is Scientific American a bad resource?
Better than most popular sources, but no substitute for journals.
Clue - real world.

Most EVERYTHING we are exposed to from medical science to earth science
is disseminated in a manner digestible by the layman. If YOUR colleagues
can't manage to inform the media in a coherent and succinct manner
blame THEM!
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
It is to their advantage to exagerate to sell more of
their product.
You offer not credible mainstream alternative though, do ya danny?
http://www.nature.com
http://www.realclimate.org
http://www.sciencemag.org
All "popular" websites, and equally suspect by your elitist maundering.
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Ya fucking gubmint shill.
Thank you for your reasoned response.
De nada eltitst, go suck an egg.
Daniel Packman
2006-12-15 23:16:37 UTC
Permalink
In article <ZDDgh.472744$***@fe03.news.easynews.com>,
Sam Brown <***@nospam.net> wrote:
.....
Post by Sam Brown
Most EVERYTHING we are exposed to from medical science to earth science
is disseminated in a manner digestible by the layman. If YOUR colleagues
can't manage to inform the media in a coherent and succinct manner
blame THEM!
Good point.
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 23:41:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
.....
Post by Sam Brown
Most EVERYTHING we are exposed to from medical science to earth science
is disseminated in a manner digestible by the layman. If YOUR colleagues
can't manage to inform the media in a coherent and succinct manner
blame THEM!
Good point.
Thank you, why is it that key scientists won't spend the time correcting
misconceptions in the media when every major outlet is more than willing
to air interesting scientific features?

It's not like there's some conspiracy to silence good science on the
networks...is there?
Daniel Packman
2006-12-16 08:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
.....
Post by Sam Brown
Most EVERYTHING we are exposed to from medical science to earth science
is disseminated in a manner digestible by the layman. If YOUR colleagues
can't manage to inform the media in a coherent and succinct manner
blame THEM!
Good point.
Thank you, why is it that key scientists won't spend the time correcting
misconceptions in the media when every major outlet is more than willing
to air interesting scientific features?
The challenge is in presenting results in a way that can
be understood by the public but still be true to the science.
I studied math and science for many years, but it wasn't until
about my junior year of college that I was in a position to really
appreciate current research. It isn't easy to overcome the limited
background of the public. Also, the skills needed by scientists to
do their job is not the same as those needed for such a communication
challenge.
Post by Sam Brown
It's not like there's some conspiracy to silence good science on the
networks...is there?
There is a powerful profit motive. Why carry a complicated
science story when lurid photos of a recent car accident
are more popular with the audience? Many viewers don't want
stories that deal with any subject in depth.
Sam Brown
2006-12-16 18:17:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daniel Packman
.....
Post by Sam Brown
Most EVERYTHING we are exposed to from medical science to earth science
is disseminated in a manner digestible by the layman. If YOUR colleagues
can't manage to inform the media in a coherent and succinct manner
blame THEM!
Good point.
Thank you, why is it that key scientists won't spend the time correcting
misconceptions in the media when every major outlet is more than willing
to air interesting scientific features?
The challenge is in presenting results in a way that can
be understood by the public but still be true to the science.
You're telling me scientists haven't mastered the summary portion of the
presentation?
Post by Daniel Packman
I studied math and science for many years, but it wasn't until
about my junior year of college that I was in a position to really
appreciate current research. It isn't easy to overcome the limited
background of the public. Also, the skills needed by scientists to
do their job is not the same as those needed for such a communication
challenge.
IOW, they need some writing skills?
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Sam Brown
It's not like there's some conspiracy to silence good science on the
networks...is there?
There is a powerful profit motive. Why carry a complicated
science story when lurid photos of a recent car accident
are more popular with the audience?
Because the two aren't mutually exclusive, duh!
Post by Daniel Packman
Many viewers don't want
stories that deal with any subject in depth.
And many do, which is why the news media handle ALL manner of stories.

Frankly the only subject that gets short shrift is so-called "feel good"
material.

Sam Brown
2006-12-15 16:11:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
[....global warming...]
Post by Ms My Rights
Ok, well like I said, I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt, now
what do we do about it? And when will the liberal Democrats stop
obstructing?
If by "liberal democrats" you mean the current administration,
They won't be current until January fool...then we can see your Luddite
gun-totin' fake Pubs fuck us all up the energy ASS by playing politics
while our ME imports keep rising.

You scumball lieberal shill.
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 16:12:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
On a recent show about "global warming" they were worrying about the
oceans rising 1/10 inch per year, or 10" over the next 100 years. They
worried about some people living on some Pacific island that were only 3'
above sea level, and what would happen to them.
3' above sea level?! Anyone who lives 3' above sea level is an idiot! Do
these people realize that a medium storm front ( not even a tropical
storm! ) can generate seas that are 6'?!
There are many parts of the US that are in for potential damage with
a 10" rise in ocean height.
I guess they can buy pontoons and swim fins then.
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 22:03:34 UTC
Permalink
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=725


February 25, 2005
The global warming scam

One of the constant allegations by global warming fanatics is that among
reputable scientists, there is an overwhelming consensus than man-made
carbon-dioxide is speeding us to eco-catastrophe and that reputable
scientists who say this is a load of bunkum are virtually non-existent.
Well, as the excellent CCNet electronic network reveals, there’s been a
lot of non-existent scientific activity recently. For example, Duncan
Wingham, Professor of Climate Physics at University College London has
said that the collapse of some of Antarctica’s ice shelves - the subject
of huge excitement recently - is likely to be the result of natural
current fluctuations, not global warming. He observed :

‘Taken as a whole, Antarctica is so cold that our present efforts to
raise its temperature might be regarded as fairly puny. Change is
undoubtedly occurring: in the collapse of the northerly Peninsula ice
shelves, and elsewhere in the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, where the
circumpolar current appears to reached the ice edge and is eating away
drastically at the ice shelves. One cannot be certain, because packets
of heat in the atmosphere do not come conveniently labelled ?the
contribution of anthropogenic warming?. But the warming of the Peninsula
has been going on for a considerable time, and the pattern of regional
change is variable, and neither of these is favorable to the notion we
are seeing the results of global warming’.

The next non-existent sceptical scientist to pop up is geologist Craig
Loehl who fitted two 3000-year temperature series to seven time-series
models. He writes:

‘Of the seven models, six show a warming trend over the 20th Century
similar in timing and magnitude to the Northern Hemisphere instrumental
series. One of the models passes right through the 20th Century data.
These results suggest that 20th Century warming trends are plausibly a
continuation of past climate patterns. Results are not precise enough to
solve the attribution problem by partitioning warming into natural
versus human-induced components. However, anywhere from a major portion
to all of the warming of the 20th Century could plausibly result from
natural causes according to these results. Six of the models project a
cooling trend (in the absence of other forcings) over the next 200 years
of 0.2-1.4 ?C.’

The next non-existent sceptical scientist is actually a group of no
fewer than 125 climate researchers. Reporting on a climate seminar run
by the Friedrich Naumann Foundation in Gummersbach, Germany a few days
ago, Bernd Str?her and Benny Peiser write:

‘Particularly revealing were the almost sensational results of a
survey conducted by Prof. Bray among some 500 German and European
climate researchers. The results show impressively that the much-
repeated claim of a “scientific consensus” on anthropogenic global
warming is a carefully constructed piece of fiction: According to the
survey results, some 25% of European climate researchers who took part
in the survey still doubt whether most of the moderate warming during
the last 150 years can be attributed to human activities and CO2
emissions.

The detailed investigations by Prof Mangini likewise left little
place for any justification of Mann’s ‘Hockey Stick’ (see post below).
In fact, his results showed quite the opposite. Mangini presented the
results from his research on stalagmites which show a very pronounced
medieval warming period and an even warmer Holocene Climate Optimum.
Mangini attributed these climatic fluctuations to the varying influence
of the sun. He also stressed that, at least with regard to geological
past, scientists are agreed about ice core evidence which suggests that
the rise in atmospheric CO2 levels followed an increase of temperatures
- and not the other way round?

[The] perhaps most controversial presentation was that by Prof
Gerlich. He did not find a good word for climate modellers and their
models and even went so far to suggest that some of the CO2-global-
warming theories contradict fundamental laws of physics. In a highly
temperamental presentation he argued that atmospheric CO2 with a
fraction of only 0.03% of the atmosphere’s total volume was
quantitatively much too insignificant in order have any measurable
temperature effect. With help of mathematical computations that were far
too complex and difficult to understand, Prof Gerlich maintained that
climate modellers were worse than astrologers, the latter of whom at
least observed real planets and their movements.’

The last word for today should go to Lord Taverne, who supports reducing
emissions of carbon dioxide but seems to be a genuinely puzzled observer
of the climate change controversy and who, having fairly set out some of
the many uncertainties that seem to contradict the global warming
zealotry, told the House of Lords:

‘There is a sort of political taboo about the issue. If you express
doubts, you must be in the pay of the oil industry or a Bush supporter.
There is a slight whiff of eco-McCarthyism about’.

A whiff? Some of us can’t breathe for the stink. Of course one has to be
wary of reserachers who are funded by any kind of vested interests. And
of course, not all research is reliable. But one can use common sense to
spot facts which are not true, arguments riddled with holes or false
logic, and deductions which are not supported by evidence - and when
studies are shredded, one looks to see how these researchers defend
themselves. And so far, the arguments presented by the global warming
lobby are being knocked down like skittles - and are not bouncing back
up.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 22:04:57 UTC
Permalink
http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-1040-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=7671
&messageID=153838&start=-1

Global Warming Scam Worth Trillions
Pollution / Hot House Gas credit trading on a worldwide stage is
potentially worth trillions!

Global warming is a political football used to break down national
sovereignty via treaties like Kyoto. The result would redistribute
wealth to 3rd world countries via pollution credit trading schemes.

Are you environmentalists aware of pollution credit trading schemes?
Companies are allowed to pollute x units of some hot house gas. If they
pollute less than x units the company can sell the difference to a
hothouse gas commodity trader or another industry. In other words the
excess clean is not retired.

A power plant in Ontario, Canada polluted less than it was allowed
to and sold the difference to a company in the northern US that polluted
more than it was allowed. It was cheaper for the US company to buy the
Ontario companies credits than to comply. But was the air in the US city
improved?

The same is true of credits generated by county airboards that
manage vehicle emissions stations. The credits from your passing
automobile are given to local companies to reduce their pollution
burden.

Another part of this scheme involves sustainable development. Under
sustainable development, if your community has polluted all it is
permitted and still short of enough jobs ... tough. Or what if companies
move out of your region and sell their credits (license to pollute) to
another region?

Poverty is the worst polluter. Environmentalism has a cost and
environmentalist want the poor to pay it. - Repeal
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 22:06:31 UTC
Permalink
http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=33536

There IS a problem with global warming... it stopped in 1998

By Bob Carter

(Filed: 09/04/2006)

For many years now, human-caused climate change has been viewed as a
large and urgent problem. In truth, however, the biggest part of the
problem is neither environmental nor scientific, but a self-created
political fiasco. Consider the simple fact, drawn from the official
temperature records of the Climate Research Unit at the University of
East Anglia, that for the years 1998-2005 global average temperature did
not increase (there was actually a slight decrease, though not at a rate
that differs significantly from zero).

Yes, you did read that right. And also, yes, this eight-year period of
temperature stasis did coincide with society's continued power station
and SUV-inspired pumping of yet more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

In response to these facts, a global warming devotee will chuckle and
say "how silly to judge climate change over such a short period". Yet in
the next breath, the same person will assure you that the 28-year-long
period of warming which occurred between 1970 and 1998 constitutes a
dangerous (and man-made) warming. Tosh. Our devotee will also pass by
the curious additional facts that a period of similar warming occurred
between 1918 and 1940, well prior to the greatest phase of world
industrialisation, and that cooling occurred between 1940 and 1965, at
precisely the time that human emissions were increasing at their
greatest rate.

Does something not strike you as odd here? That industrial carbon
dioxide is not the primary cause of earth's recent decadal-scale
temperature changes doesn't seem at all odd to many thousands of
independent scientists. They have long appreciated - ever since the
early 1990s, when the global warming bandwagon first started to roll
behind the gravy train of the UN Inter-governmental Panel on Climate
Change (IPCC) - that such short-term climate fluctuations are chiefly of
natural origin. Yet the public appears to be largely convinced
otherwise. How is this possible?

Since the early 1990s, the columns of many leading newspapers and
magazines, worldwide, have carried an increasing stream of alarmist
letters and articles on hypothetical, human-caused climate change. Each
such alarmist article is larded with words such as "if", "might",
"could", "probably", "perhaps", "expected", "projected" or "modelled" -
and many involve such deep dreaming, or ignorance of scientific facts
and principles, that they are akin to nonsense.

The problem here is not that of climate change per se, but rather that
of the sophisticated scientific brainwashing that has been inflicted on
the public, bureaucrats and politicians alike. Governments generally
choose not to receive policy advice on climate from independent
scientists. Rather, they seek guidance from their own self-interested
science bureaucracies and senior advisers, or from the IPCC itself. No
matter how accurate it may be, cautious and politically non-correct
science advice is not welcomed in Westminster, and nor is it widely
reported.

Marketed under the imprimatur of the IPCC, the bladder-trembling and now
infamous hockey-stick diagram that shows accelerating warming during the
20th century - a statistical construct by scientist Michael Mann and co-
workers from mostly tree ring records - has been a seminal image of the
climate scaremongering campaign. Thanks to the work of a Canadian
statistician, Stephen McIntyre, and others, this graph is now known to
be deeply flawed.

There are other reasons, too, why the public hears so little in detail
from those scientists who approach climate change issues rationally, the
so-called climate sceptics. Most are to do with intimidation against
speaking out, which operates intensely on several parallel fronts.

First, most government scientists are gagged from making public comment
on contentious issues, their employing organisations instead making use
of public relations experts to craft carefully tailored, frisbee-science
press releases. Second, scientists are under intense pressure to conform
with the prevailing paradigm of climate alarmism if they wish to receive
funding for their research. Third, members of the Establishment have
spoken declamatory words on the issue, and the kingdom's subjects are
expected to listen.

On the alarmist campaign trail, the UK's Chief Scientific Adviser, Sir
David King, is thus reported as saying that global warming is so bad
that Antarctica is likely to be the world's only habitable continent by
the end of this century. Warming devotee and former Chairman of Shell,
Lord [Ron] Oxburgh, reportedly agrees with another rash statement of
King's, that climate change is a bigger threat than terrorism. And
goodly Archbishop Rowan Williams, who self-evidently understands little
about the science, has warned of "millions, billions" of deaths as a
result of global warming and threatened Mr Blair with the wrath of the
climate God unless he acts. By betraying the public's trust in their
positions of influence, so do the great and good become the small and
silly.

Two simple graphs provide needed context, and exemplify the dynamic,
fluctuating nature of climate change. The first is a temperature curve
for the last six million years, which shows a three-million year period
when it was several degrees warmer than today, followed by a three-
million year cooling trend which was accompanied by an increase in the
magnitude of the pervasive, higher frequency, cold and warm climate
cycles. During the last three such warm (interglacial) periods,
temperatures at high latitudes were as much as 5 degrees warmer than
today's. The second graph shows the average global temperature over the
last eight years, which has proved to be a period of stasis.

The essence of the issue is this. Climate changes naturally all the
time, partly in predictable cycles, and partly in unpredictable shorter
rhythms and rapid episodic shifts, some of the causes of which remain
unknown. We are fortunate that our modern societies have developed
during the last 10,000 years of benignly warm, interglacial climate. But
for more than 90 per cent of the last two million years, the climate has
been colder, and generally much colder, than today. The reality of the
climate record is that a sudden natural cooling is far more to be
feared, and will do infinitely more social and economic damage, than the
late 20th century phase of gentle warming.

The British Government urgently needs to recast the sources from which
it draws its climate advice. The shrill alarmism of its public advisers,
and the often eco-fundamentalist policy initiatives that bubble up from
the depths of the Civil Service, have all long since been detached from
science reality. Intern-ationally, the IPCC is a deeply flawed
organisation, as acknowledged in a recent House of Lords report, and the
Kyoto Protocol has proved a costly flop. Clearly, the wrong horses have
been backed.

As mooted recently by Tony Blair, perhaps the time has come for Britain
to join instead the new Asia-Pacific Partnership on Clean Development
and Climate (AP6), whose six member countries are committed to the
development of new technologies to improve environmental outcomes.
There, at least, some real solutions are likely to emerge for improving
energy efficiency and reducing pollution.

Informal discussions have already begun about a new AP6 audit body,
designed to vet rigorously the science advice that the Partnership
receives, including from the IPCC. Can Britain afford not to be there?

• Prof Bob Carter is a geologist at James Cook University, Queensland,
engaged in paleoclimate research

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m...t=/news/2006/0
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 22:07:34 UTC
Permalink
http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=32980

Time Cover Story Offers No Evidence Of Human-Driven Warming
Global warming (along with the UN and the monetary scam) is ranked #1
among my NWO obsessions.


QUI BONO--- >>follow the money: The new global warming treaty is
estimated to cost $100tn for the hypothetical prevention of a 1 degree
Centigrade rise in the average global temperature

Time Cover Story Offers No Evidence Of Human-Driven Warming
Thursday, March 30, 2006

Time devotes its latest cover to the "near-certainty" that humans are
causing dangerous global warming. However, Time offers evidence only of
a warming, which could be either man-made or natural.

Based on historic and geophysical evidence, Time’s new cover story is
likely to be as wrong as its 1974 cover story touting global cooling!
Newsweek did one the next year.

Neither magazine understands the moderate; natural climate cycle that
history tells us has dominated the last 2000 years of Earth’s
temperature variations:


The Romans grew wine grapes in England in the 1st century, during the
Roman Warming. Then, during the Dark Ages, Britain was too cold for
grapes.


The Britons themselves grew wine grapes in England in the 11th and 12th
centuries, during the Medieval Warming. The Domesday Book, compiled
right after the Norman Invasion of 1066, records more than 70 vineyards.
During the following Little Ice Age, London held ice festivals instead
of wine tastings.


It’s not warm enough yet during the Modern Warming for a British wine
industry, but the grape growers are succeeding two years out of ten–and
hopeful.


That makes three global warmings in 2000 years right from our history
books.

In the 1980s, we were surprised by the first long ice cores from both
Greenland and the Antarctic, which gave us 400,000 years of the Earth’s
detailed temperature history in their ice layers. We had expected to
find the big Ice Ages and the warm interglacial periods like our own. We
had not expected to find a moderate, natural 1500-year cycle running
through it all, even through the big Ice Ages.

The natural warmings raise Earth’s temperatures 1 to 2 degrees C at the
latitude of New York for 400—800 years. The coolings that follow drop
our temperatures 1—2 degrees below the mean for a similar length of
time.

Since then, scientists have found the 1500-year cycle in tree rings;
cave stalagmites and the microfossils of seabed sediments. Prehistoric
villages moved up and down the Alps and Andes mountainsides while
glaciers worldwide advanced and retreated, all in time with the cycle.

The North American pollen database shows nine complete reorganizations
of our trees and plants in the past 14,000 years, or a cycle every 1,650
years. In my home state of Michigan, pollen shows that the numbers of
warmth-loving beech trees yielding first to the cold-tolerant oaks and
then to cold-adapted pine trees. Currently, with the world 150 years
into the Modern Warming, the pine trees are being discouraged, the oaks
are proliferating, and the beech trees are waiting another turn.

The solar-created carbon and beryllium isotopes in the ice tell us the
cycle is linked to a similar cycle in the sun’s irradiance. We had known
for centuries that the coldest parts of the Little Ice Age occurred when
there were virtually no sunspots. Now, space satellites are documenting
small variations in what we used to think was an unchanging sun.

Time magazine has no such hard evidence to support human-induced
warming. Theory says more CO2 will mean warmer temperatures, but no one
knows whether the CO2 "X-factor" is tiny or huge. The modest net warming
since 1940 argues against a big CO2 factor. So does the erratic warming
pattern, with a cooling from 1940 to 1979 and then a spurt of warming.

A warming driven by industrial CO2 should have started after 1940, and
increased strongly and steadily. The climate models all assume a big CO2
factor, without evidence.

The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change claims to have found a
"human fingerprint", but has offered no evidence to support the claim.

The evidence is all on the side of the natural cycle.

Time’s cover story seems overheated. The UN panel’s widely publicized
scenario of an 11-degree C warming driven by CO2 seems frantic.

DENNIS T. AVERY is a senior fellow for Hudson Institute in Washington,
DC and the Director for Global Food Issues (www.cgfi.org). He was
formerly a senior analyst for the Department of State. Readers may write
him at Post Office Box 202, Churchville, VA 24421.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/caruba033006.htm


AND

Is Global Warming Getting Colder?
By Alan Caruba
Thursday, March 30, 2006

The first thing we have to do is fire all the reporters, editors and
headline writers who have not got a clue about "global warming" except
that it scares the hell out of readers and sells newspapers.

In late March, my local daily carried an Associated Press article by
Randolph E. Schmid with a headline, "Global warming warns Earth of a sea
change." It ran the story across six columns and threw in a photo of the
Greenland ice sheet.

Such stories are best distinguished by how many times the words
"probably", "may", and "could" occur in the body of the text. These are
very slippery words used by so-called scientists trying to justify their
latest "findings." If you look for something hard enough, you are bound
to find some signs, some indicators, and some intimation that something
is happening or about to happen. Every day people find a reason to buy
stocks whose value disappears for unforeseen reasons.

Schmid began his article with his opinion that "The Earth is already
shaking beneath melting ice as rising temperatures threaten to shrink
polar glaciers and raise sea levels around the world." You had to read
to the end of the second paragraph to learn that he was proclaiming all
this would occur thanks to "new research appearing in today’s issue of
the journal Science." The only problem is that this pathetic excuse for
a scientific publication has been banging the global warming drum for so
long, its editors are desperate to publish anything to support the
theory.

At this point, all of us have been deluged with "research" that is cited
as proof of global warming, ranging from the migration of a few thousand
feet by some furry creatures in a national park to the momentary melting
of snow on some African mountaintop. At no time is the activity of the
Sun ever mentioned, nor is the increased volcanic activity in the
Earth’s oceans, nor the fact that no one knows why clouds do what they
do.

The Schmid article is just one long list of horrors, all of which, we
have read and heard about for years. The research claims that the
Earth’s temperature by 2100–a century from now–will "probably be at
least 4 degrees warmer than now…" Since few of us will be around 90
years from now, no one will be able to confirm this prediction. Other
scientists cited in the article predict "Melting could raise the sea
level one to three feet over the next 100 to 150 years…" And "increases
in greenhouse gases in the atmosphere over the next century could raise
Arctic temperatures as much as 5 to 8 degrees."

Meanwhile, back on Earth, on March 12 a late season storm dropped 8
inches of snow on northern Great Britain and, a week earlier, there were
blizzards in Western Europe that killed 17 people. Some regions of
Germany, France, Switzerland, and Italy saw the heaviest March snowfall
in nearly three decades. In February it had snowed for 50 straight hours
in Sichuan, China, and a record freeze occurred in Russia that destroyed
an estimated 30% of its winter crops. "This is the worst winter in 28
years," said Alexei Gordeyev, the Agricultural Minister. Are we looking
at a trend? Nobody really knows.

While the editors of Science magazine were pumping up the hype about
global warming, the Earth was providing a panorama of very cold events
whose intensity appears to be growing. And why not? The Earth is
currently at the tail end of a 12,000 interglacial period. In other
words, if the cycle holds true, we are due for another Ice Age.

On a recent CBS "Sixty Minutes" program, NASA’s James Hansen proclaimed
that humans now control the Earth’s climate. Do you get that funny
feeling that there is a major, coordinated, propaganda campaign to
convince us–one more time–that global warming is real?

Dr. Hansen cited as evidence that the edges of the Greenland ice sheet
were rapidly melting. He attributed this to man-made greenhouse gases.
Apparently Dr. Hansen had not read up on the history of Greenland
because, as Dr. Dennis Avery, a senior fellow for Hudson Institute,
pointed out, "Melting around the edges is exactly what the Vikings saw
on Greenland 1,000 years ago when they named the island–for its green
coastal meadows."

During a period climatologists now call the "Medieval Warming", the
Vikings thrived for some 300 years. Then the "Little Ice Age" began and,
by 1408, Greenland was, well, really cold and the Vikings had abandoned
the place. Dr. Avery points out that "Our panic-prone scientists seem to
have forgotten their own ice cores, drilled deep into the Greenland ice
sheet in the 1980s." Those ice cores revealed that the Earth is in a
constant cycle between hot and cold climate.

It is instructive that, after the 1970s during which environmentalists
were warning of a coming Ice Age, they changed course and began telling
everyone "global warming" was coming. And where were all those man-made
greenhouse gases in the pre-industrial age of the Vikings and elsewhere
around the world that experienced the Medieval Warming? And why didn’t
they fend off the Little Ice Age?

The warming that has occurred, 0.8 degree Celsius, "virtually all
occurred before 1940," notes Dr. Avery, "and thus before much industrial
development. Ice cores from the Fremont Glacier in Wyoming "show it went
from Little Ice Age cold to Modern Warming warm in the ten years between
1845 and 1855. Naturally."

That’s the operative word. "Naturally." It has to due with massive
climate forces that were and will remain beyond any "control" by
mankind. Is it just my imagination or is global warming getting–dare I
say it–colder these days?

Alan Caruba writes a weekly column, "Warning Signs", posted on the
Internet site of The National Anxiety Center, www.anxietycenter.com.
Alan can be reached at: ***@aol.com.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 22:08:24 UTC
Permalink
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/sanandaji9.html

The Global Warming Scam

by Nima Sanandaji and Fred Goldberg

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The media portrays a dramatic image of how the ice is melting in the
polar regions as a consequence of global warming. We are warned that the
North Pole might become icefree during the summer months at the end of
this century and that the polar bears might become extinct due to this
development.

But is this really a realistic image? Sure, there is research that
indicates that the ice sheets are being reduced, but there are also
studies that show the complete opposite. An example of this is a study
in the scientific journal Geophysical Research Letter where the Swedish
researcher Peter Winsor compares data collected by submarines below the
Arctic ice. His conclusions are that the thickness of the ice has been
almost constant between 1986 and 1997.

If you look at the South Pole there are studies that show an increase in
the mass of the ice. In a study published in the journal Nature a number
of polar researchers showed that they had observed a net cooling of 0.7
degrees in the region between 1986 and 2000. Another study published in
Science showed that the East-Antarctic ice sheet had grown with 45
million metric tones between 1992 and 2003.

Are the ices growing or melting? The simple answer is that there exist
studies that point to both directions, perhaps indicating that
scientists know relatively little about global climate. But what counts
to most ordinary people is what media is reporting, and media is often
highlighting the most alarming studies and seldom report of studies that
go against the notion that human activity leads to global warming. To
put it simply, the news is filtered through an environmentalist view of
the world.

An interesting example of how media sometimes gets it wrong is how
journalists reported that there had never been so little ice in the
Arctic than in 2005. This claim was based on satellite images by NASA
which showed that the geographic extent of the ice sheet had never been
so small since measurement began in 1979. One must however keep in fact
that about half of the ice in the Arctic melts each summer and that two
months before this measurment the extent of the ice sheet was the same
as the previous year. The problem is that satellite images show the
surface of the ice but not the thickness.

Capten Årnell at the summer expedition with the polar-ship Oden could
tell that he had never seen so much ice in the Arctic than in 2005. It
was with great difficulty that he had passed through the region. What
had happened in 2005 seems to be that the ice had packed densely against
the Canadian part of the Arctic. The geographical extent had been
reduced but the ice was thicker.

As for polar bears, much points to that their numbers are increasing
rather than diminishing. Mitch Taylor, a Canadian expert on animal
populations, estimates that the number of polar bears in Canada has
increased from 12 000 to 15 000 the past decade. Steven C Amstrup and
his college have studied a population of polar bears in Alaska and
reported that the number of females had increased from 600 to 900
between 1976 and 1992. Even a report from the WWF which is entitled
"Polar bears at risk" and warns that the populations of the polar bears
might become extinct due to global warming, supports that the number of
polar bears is increasing. In the report the polar bears in the world
are divided into 20 populations. It shows out that only 2 of these
populations are decreasing, while 10 are stable, 5 are growing and 3 are
not possible to comment about.

Global climate is an important issue to debate, but it is sad that what
is communicated often has a clear shifting towards the worst-case
scenarios and the doomsday theories. There is no reason to scare people
by giving them only one side of the argument.

March 18, 2006

Nima Sanandaji [send him mail] is president of the Swedish think tank
Captus and the editor of Captus Journal. He is a graduate student in
biochemistry at the University of Cambridge. Fred Goldberg is associate
professor at the Royal School of Technology in Stockholm and was on a
Polar trip whilst writing this article.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
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Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
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relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 22:10:10 UTC
Permalink
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=137965

Health, Science & Technology
See other Health, Science & Technology Articles

Title: Global Warming Alarmists Seek 'Circle of Death,' Group Says
Source: Crosswalk.com
URL Source: http://www.crosswalk.com/news/1391708.html
Published: Apr 20, 2006
Author: Randy Hall
Post Date: 2006-04-20 10:36:52 by RussKon45
1 Comments

With Earth Day approaching on Saturday, a coalition of religious leaders
and policy experts held a news briefing on Capitol Hill Wednesday to
promote the use of "right reason" when dealing with climate issues and
to accuse global warming alarmists of promoting a "circle of death"
around the world.

"Pulpits, Pews and Environmental Policy" was the title of the event,
which was hosted by the Interfaith Stewardship Alliance (ISA), a group
described on its website as "committed to bringing a proper and balanced
Biblical view of stewardship to the critical issues of environment and
development."

"Anyone who's seen [the Walt Disney animated film] 'The Lion King' knows
there's a circle of life," which in the real world includes "access to
electricity, disease prevention, clean water and nutrition," said Paul
Driessen, senior policy advisor for the College of Racial Equality.

"But just as there's a circle of life, there's also a circle of death.
It connects policies that perpetuate poverty, disease, malnutrition and
early death," noted Driessen, who is also the author of the book, "Eco-
Imperialism: Green Power, Black Death."

Two ways global warming activists promote this "circle of death" are "by
denying people access to life-saving technologies" and "by trying to
protect people in wealthy countries from distant, conjectural risks
while prolonging or increasing the very real and immediate risks to poor
people in poor countries," Driessen said.

Driessen added that climate-change alarmists are also "twisting common
definitions of ethics, morality, social responsibility and compassion
for the poor in a way that justifies global warming policies and agendas
but really harms the poor."

"For instance, 'TIME Magazine,' astronomer James Hansen -- who's not an
atmospheric scientist -- and such self-styled instant climate experts as
Julia Roberts and George Clooney worry that the world's poor might be
harmed by rising seas, disease, storms, floods and malnutrition
allegedly caused by global warming," Driessen said.

"However, the supposed link between these catastrophes and global
warming is pure speculation," Driessen said. "There's been less than
half a degree of warming since 1940, and it stretches the imagination to
suppose that this could cause the great disasters they're trying to link
to climate change right now.

"Moreover, it's often the very policies they promote that actually
represent the greatest threats to the world's poor," Driessen added.

The speakers at the briefing dismissed the Kyoto Protocol, with Driessen
calling the agreement "an attempt to somehow stabilize a planet that is
not stable." He added that many Kyoto signers have fossil fuel emissions
up to 25 percent above where they should be by 2010.

At this rate, it would require "40 more Kyotos, each more restrictive
than the previous one," to reach the Protocol goal of reducing emissions
by 60 to 80 percent of the totals in 1990, Driessen said.

Instead, Dr. E. Calvin Beisner, national spokesman and a founding member
of the ISA, encouraged Judeo-Christian congregations and institutions to
join the coalition's "Cornwall Network," which was launched Wednesday to
promote the principles of the Cornwall Declaration on Environmental
Stewardship.

Released in the spring of 2000 and signed so far by more than 1,500
clergy, theologians and other people of faith, the statement notes that
humans, as bearers of God's image, have been given dominion over the
Earth and are not "principally consumers and polluters rather than
producers and stewards."

With that in mind, the document rejects the concept that "the earth --
untouched by human hands -- is the ideal." Also, "while some
environmental concerns are well founded and serious, others are without
foundation or greatly exaggerated," such as "fears of destructive
manmade global warming, overpopulation and rampant species loss.

"We aspire to a world in which right reason (including sound theology
and the careful use of scientific methods) guides the stewardship of
human and ecological relationships," the declaration states.

Beisner also said that the briefing was held to show the ISA's
disagreement with the Evangelical Climate Initiative's "Call to Action"
released last February.

That document lists four claims: "Human-induced climate change is
real;" "The consequences of climate change will be significant and will
hit the poor the hardest;" "Christian moral convictions demand our
response to the climate change problem;" and "The need to act now is
urgent."

While noting that the ISA does not agree the conclusions in the
Initiative's document, "we still share the same Biblical worldview,"
Beisner said.

Rev. Ralph Weitz, stewardship pastor of the Immanuel Bible Church in
Springfield, Va., joined Beisner Wednesday in promoting membership in
the new network.

"I take seriously God's command to subdue and rule the Earth. It's a
divine responsibility," Weitz said. "We need to avoid guilt-ridden,
emotionally manipulative policies that center on a political agenda
rather than personal responsibility."

In addition, Driessen had a suggestion for the journalists, celebrities
and millionaires who demand that Americans change their lifestyles to
combat global warming: Go native with their families for a month in
rural Africa.

"I'd be less dismissive of their views if they were willing to live
without electricity or sanitation, drink the locals' contaminated water,
breathe polluted smoke day in and out 24/7 from their wood and dung
fires, endure swarms of diseased mosquitoes and swelter happily under
bed nets when the temperature in the hut is 95 degrees in the middle of
the night and the temperature under the mosquito net is 105," Driessen
said.

"And do it all with no bug sprays, no pesticides or malaria pills," he
added. "And be prepared to walk 20 miles to the nearest clinic when they
or their child inevitably come down with malaria.

"So far, none of them have volunteered to do so," Driessen said, even
though he and his colleagues would be willing to put them up for free
"in the finest mud huts in the village."
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Ms My Rights
2006-12-05 22:11:52 UTC
Permalink
We could go on and on with these articles but to make a long story short,
just do a google on: global warming scam

1.3 million returns.
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR RULERS!
If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote wouldn't be
that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t slavery,
like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee relationships, while
not defining things as slavery that are slavery, like taxation?
Daniel Packman
2006-12-05 23:41:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
We could go on and on with these articles but to make a long story short,
just do a google on: global warming scam
1.3 million returns.
There are a lot of articles. I don't see any with scientific content.
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 16:12:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
We could go on and on with these articles but to make a long story short,
just do a google on: global warming scam
1.3 million returns.
There are a lot of articles. I don't see any with scientific content.
Oh, you read all of em danny?

Fuck off shill.
Daryl Hunt
2006-12-07 00:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
We should get Al Gore to come out to Denver tomorrow morning at 4 AM
and give a speech about what an urgent emergency "global warming" is.
He should give it in Denver's city park, where the temp is supposed
to be 5 degrees at that time, and there's still 6" of snow on the
ground.
Are you implying that global warming is a hoax because
of a locally cold day?
Saying that man causes global warming is a hoax perpetrated by
government agencies that want funding to keep people panicked about it.
There are many factors. Automobile emissions, factory emissions, cutting
down the rain forest, paving over water sheds, and even the changing in the
tilt of the earth.

While almost all reasons for global warming can be attributed to Man (and
ill informed or uncaring Females as well), some are natural.

1. Fossil Fuel Pollutants. Yah, Yah, each car does less polluting these
days as compared to 40 years ago. That sounds nice but there are many times
more cars today on the road and it's still the leading pollutant. It wasn't
40 years ago, that went to Industry that has cleaned up by quite a margin.

2. Industry. The United States is no longer the #1 Industrial Pollutant.
In fact, the US isn't even second. The first and second place goes to India
and China. So keep right on buying those imports.

3. Volcanos. Okay, this one can't be helped by man. Man just shouldn't be
adding to natural disasters to the degree Man is.

4. The tilt of the Earth. Are you aware that the Earth had the North Pole
on the Equator at one time? I am not talking about true north (that's a
spot on the map) I am talking about Magnetic North. Since the early 1700s,
North has moved from northern Canada all the way until it's almost in
Russia. And the earth is wobbling more these days. In othewords, the Moon
moving away (about 2 cm a year) from the Earth is affecting the Earth less
each Millinia. The Earth relies on the Moon to help stablelize it. As the
Earth slowly moves it's axis, the extreme northern half (including the most
temperate) moves toward where the Equator used to be. Not True Equator
(another spot on the map) but the actual equator that is 90 degrees from the
sun more than any other part. Can we do anything about this? Nope. Give
it another 100,000 years before it's noticable. In fact, it's a race to see
what ends like on earth, the moon no longer there to stablize the Earth or
the Sun going Nova. Not much to worry about for the next billion or so
years.

There are other reasons but most are manmade problems that contribute.
Saying that Man is causing Global Warming is like saying Cigarattes cause
Cancer. They don't but the certain contribute to it.

May I ask what kind of vehicle to you go back and forth to work or play? I
haven't purchased a single gallon of gas since Nov 2004. I drive electrics.
My daily vehicle is: http://i70west.com/lsebicycle/LSEBM1.html . I don't
condemn others that drive fossil fueled vehicles but each of us must take it
on the chin. Electrics are cleaner but have other drawbacks. Some can live
with those drawbacks and others can't. Many just use the drawbacks as an
excuse. I don't.
Ms My Rights
2006-12-07 00:42:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daryl Hunt
4. The tilt of the Earth. Are you aware that the Earth had the
North Pole on the Equator at one time? I am not talking about true
north (that's a spot on the map) I am talking about Magnetic North.
Since the early 1700s, North has moved from northern Canada all the
way until it's almost in Russia. And the earth is wobbling more
these days. In othewords, the Moon moving away (about 2 cm a year)
from the Earth is affecting the Earth less each Millinia. The Earth
relies on the Moon to help stablelize it. As the Earth slowly moves
it's axis, the extreme northern half (including the most temperate)
moves toward where the Equator used to be. Not True Equator (another
spot on the map) but the actual equator that is 90 degrees from the
sun more than any other part. Can we do anything about this? Nope.
Give it another 100,000 years before it's noticable. In fact, it's a
race to see what ends like on earth, the moon no longer there to
stablize the Earth or the Sun going Nova. Not much to worry about
for the next billion or so years.
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly. There were
mastadons found frozen in the arctic with food still in their stomachs
and I heard they died very quickly. There was talk about a sudden and
massive shift of the actual rotational axis of the earth.

I'm wondering what might happen, with all the ice cap melting going on
now. Sudden extinction?
--
IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.

Why is it that the liberals define things as slavery that aren’t
slavery, like voluntary mutually consenting employer-employee
relationships, while not defining things as slavery that are slavery,
like taxation?
Everett M. Greene
2006-12-07 20:29:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daryl Hunt
4. The tilt of the Earth. Are you aware that the Earth had the
North Pole on the Equator at one time? I am not talking about true
north (that's a spot on the map) I am talking about Magnetic North.
Since the early 1700s, North has moved from northern Canada all the
way until it's almost in Russia. And the earth is wobbling more
these days. In othewords, the Moon moving away (about 2 cm a year)
from the Earth is affecting the Earth less each Millinia. The Earth
relies on the Moon to help stablelize it. As the Earth slowly moves
it's axis, the extreme northern half (including the most temperate)
moves toward where the Equator used to be. Not True Equator (another
spot on the map) but the actual equator that is 90 degrees from the
sun more than any other part. Can we do anything about this? Nope.
Give it another 100,000 years before it's noticable. In fact, it's a
race to see what ends like on earth, the moon no longer there to
stablize the Earth or the Sun going Nova. Not much to worry about
for the next billion or so years.
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly. There were
mastadons found frozen in the arctic with food still in their stomachs
and I heard they died very quickly. There was talk about a sudden and
massive shift of the actual rotational axis of the earth.
Should be an interesting talk considering the amount of energy
needed to change the rotation axis. Any indication as to the
source of this energy?

There's possibly some confusion with the "sudden" shift in the
earth's magnetic field.
Post by Ms My Rights
I'm wondering what might happen, with all the ice cap melting
going on now. Sudden extinction?
Hardly. If it gets rid of NYC and Miami, that would be
an improvement.
Daryl Hunt
2006-12-08 01:50:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daryl Hunt
4. The tilt of the Earth. Are you aware that the Earth had the
North Pole on the Equator at one time? I am not talking about true
north (that's a spot on the map) I am talking about Magnetic North.
Since the early 1700s, North has moved from northern Canada all the
way until it's almost in Russia. And the earth is wobbling more
these days. In othewords, the Moon moving away (about 2 cm a year)
from the Earth is affecting the Earth less each Millinia. The Earth
relies on the Moon to help stablelize it. As the Earth slowly moves
it's axis, the extreme northern half (including the most temperate)
moves toward where the Equator used to be. Not True Equator (another
spot on the map) but the actual equator that is 90 degrees from the
sun more than any other part. Can we do anything about this? Nope.
Give it another 100,000 years before it's noticable. In fact, it's a
race to see what ends like on earth, the moon no longer there to
stablize the Earth or the Sun going Nova. Not much to worry about
for the next billion or so years.
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly. There were
mastadons found frozen in the arctic with food still in their stomachs
and I heard they died very quickly. There was talk about a sudden and
massive shift of the actual rotational axis of the earth.
Should be an interesting talk considering the amount of energy
needed to change the rotation axis. Any indication as to the
source of this energy?
It's a gradual thing. And it's a natural occurance. It's been happening
all along.
Post by Everett M. Greene
There's possibly some confusion with the "sudden" shift in the
earth's magnetic field.
Not exactly sudden. Unless you count a few "Billion" years as sudden. I
guess that could be considered sudden for a supreme being.
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
I'm wondering what might happen, with all the ice cap melting
going on now. Sudden extinction?
Hardly. If it gets rid of NYC and Miami, that would be
an improvement.
Hey, we are also rooting for California to break off into an Island as well.
It would help property values in Nevada.
Everett M. Greene
2006-12-08 16:39:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daryl Hunt
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
I'm wondering what might happen, with all the ice cap melting
going on now. Sudden extinction?
Hardly. If it gets rid of NYC and Miami, that would be
an improvement.
Hey, we are also rooting for California to break off into an
island as well. It would help property values in Nevada.
They're not expensive enough yet?

I'm all in favor of the split also. I might have some ocean
front property!
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 15:53:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Daryl Hunt
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
I'm wondering what might happen, with all the ice cap melting
going on now. Sudden extinction?
Hardly. If it gets rid of NYC and Miami, that would be
an improvement.
Hey, we are also rooting for California to break off into an
island as well. It would help property values in Nevada.
They're not expensive enough yet?
I'm all in favor of the split also. I might have some ocean
front property!
Good place to soak your idiotic festering head, fuck off fool.
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 15:55:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daryl Hunt
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daryl Hunt
4. The tilt of the Earth. Are you aware that the Earth had the
North Pole on the Equator at one time? I am not talking about true
north (that's a spot on the map) I am talking about Magnetic North.
Since the early 1700s, North has moved from northern Canada all the
way until it's almost in Russia. And the earth is wobbling more
these days. In othewords, the Moon moving away (about 2 cm a year)
from the Earth is affecting the Earth less each Millinia. The Earth
relies on the Moon to help stablelize it. As the Earth slowly moves
it's axis, the extreme northern half (including the most temperate)
moves toward where the Equator used to be. Not True Equator (another
spot on the map) but the actual equator that is 90 degrees from the
sun more than any other part. Can we do anything about this? Nope.
Give it another 100,000 years before it's noticable. In fact, it's a
race to see what ends like on earth, the moon no longer there to
stablize the Earth or the Sun going Nova. Not much to worry about
for the next billion or so years.
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly. There were
mastadons found frozen in the arctic with food still in their stomachs
and I heard they died very quickly. There was talk about a sudden and
massive shift of the actual rotational axis of the earth.
Should be an interesting talk considering the amount of energy
needed to change the rotation axis. Any indication as to the
source of this energy?
It's a gradual thing. And it's a natural occurance. It's been happening
all along.
Post by Everett M. Greene
There's possibly some confusion with the "sudden" shift in the
earth's magnetic field.
Not exactly sudden. Unless you count a few "Billion" years as sudden. I
guess that could be considered sudden for a supreme being.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4520982.stm

The Earth's north magnetic pole is drifting away from North America so
fast that it could end up in Siberia within 50 years, scientists have said.

The shift could mean that Alaska will lose its northern lights, or
auroras, which might then be more visible in areas of Siberia and Europ
Post by Daryl Hunt
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
I'm wondering what might happen, with all the ice cap melting
going on now. Sudden extinction?
Hardly. If it gets rid of NYC and Miami, that would be
an improvement.
Hey, we are also rooting for California to break off into an Island as well.
It would help property values in Nevada.
Nothing will help Winemucca.
Ms My Rights
2006-12-15 18:31:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daryl Hunt
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daryl Hunt
4. The tilt of the Earth. Are you aware that the Earth had the
North Pole on the Equator at one time? I am not talking about
true north (that's a spot on the map) I am talking about Magnetic
North. Since the early 1700s, North has moved from northern
Canada all the way until it's almost in Russia. And the earth is
wobbling more these days. In othewords, the Moon moving away
(about 2 cm a year) from the Earth is affecting the Earth less
each Millinia. The Earth relies on the Moon to help stablelize
it. As the Earth slowly moves it's axis, the extreme northern
half (including the most temperate) moves toward where the
Equator used to be. Not True Equator (another spot on the map)
but the actual equator that is 90 degrees from the sun more than
any other part. Can we do anything about this? Nope. Give it
another 100,000 years before it's noticable. In fact, it's a
race to see what ends like on earth, the moon no longer there to
stablize the Earth or the Sun going Nova. Not much to worry
about for the next billion or so years.
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly.
There were mastadons found frozen in the arctic with food still in
their stomachs and I heard they died very quickly. There was talk
about a sudden and massive shift of the actual rotational axis of
the earth.
Should be an interesting talk considering the amount of energy
needed to change the rotation axis. Any indication as to the
source of this energy?
It's a gradual thing. And it's a natural occurance. It's been
happening all along.
Post by Everett M. Greene
There's possibly some confusion with the "sudden" shift in the
earth's magnetic field.
Not exactly sudden. Unless you count a few "Billion" years as
sudden. I guess that could be considered sudden for a supreme
being.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4520982.stm
The Earth's north magnetic pole is drifting away from North America
so fast that it could end up in Siberia within 50 years, scientists
have said.
The shift could mean that Alaska will lose its northern lights, or
auroras, which might then be more visible in areas of Siberia and Europ
That's terrible. How can we prevent that? Would it stop if everyone on
the planet gave up our cars and electricity and went back to living in
caves and foraging the fields for berries?
--
Have you watched America: Freedom to Fascism yet?
Free video: http://tinyurl.com/snr7b

IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 18:37:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Daryl Hunt
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daryl Hunt
4. The tilt of the Earth. Are you aware that the Earth had the
North Pole on the Equator at one time? I am not talking about
true north (that's a spot on the map) I am talking about Magnetic
North. Since the early 1700s, North has moved from northern
Canada all the way until it's almost in Russia. And the earth is
wobbling more these days. In othewords, the Moon moving away
(about 2 cm a year) from the Earth is affecting the Earth less
each Millinia. The Earth relies on the Moon to help stablelize
it. As the Earth slowly moves it's axis, the extreme northern
half (including the most temperate) moves toward where the
Equator used to be. Not True Equator (another spot on the map)
but the actual equator that is 90 degrees from the sun more than
any other part. Can we do anything about this? Nope. Give it
another 100,000 years before it's noticable. In fact, it's a
race to see what ends like on earth, the moon no longer there to
stablize the Earth or the Sun going Nova. Not much to worry
about for the next billion or so years.
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly.
There were mastadons found frozen in the arctic with food still in
their stomachs and I heard they died very quickly. There was talk
about a sudden and massive shift of the actual rotational axis of
the earth.
Should be an interesting talk considering the amount of energy
needed to change the rotation axis. Any indication as to the
source of this energy?
It's a gradual thing. And it's a natural occurance. It's been
happening all along.
Post by Everett M. Greene
There's possibly some confusion with the "sudden" shift in the
earth's magnetic field.
Not exactly sudden. Unless you count a few "Billion" years as
sudden. I guess that could be considered sudden for a supreme
being.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4520982.stm
The Earth's north magnetic pole is drifting away from North America
so fast that it could end up in Siberia within 50 years, scientists
have said.
The shift could mean that Alaska will lose its northern lights, or
auroras, which might then be more visible in areas of Siberia and Europ
That's terrible. How can we prevent that? Would it stop if everyone on
the planet gave up our cars and electricity and went back to living in
caves and foraging the fields for berries?
Gee...intruiging Ludditisim, but no...we're just gonna have to let
NATURE take its course.

Maybe if we all ran up to the poles and jumped around we could get the
Chandler Wobble really shaking!
Ms My Rights
2006-12-08 03:36:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daryl Hunt
4. The tilt of the Earth. Are you aware that the Earth had the
North Pole on the Equator at one time? I am not talking about
true north (that's a spot on the map) I am talking about Magnetic
North. Since the early 1700s, North has moved from northern Canada
all the way until it's almost in Russia. And the earth is
wobbling more these days. In othewords, the Moon moving away
(about 2 cm a year) from the Earth is affecting the Earth less
each Millinia. The Earth relies on the Moon to help stablelize
it. As the Earth slowly moves it's axis, the extreme northern
half (including the most temperate) moves toward where the Equator
used to be. Not True Equator (another spot on the map) but the
actual equator that is 90 degrees from the sun more than any other
part. Can we do anything about this? Nope. Give it another
100,000 years before it's noticable. In fact, it's a race to see
what ends like on earth, the moon no longer there to stablize the
Earth or the Sun going Nova. Not much to worry about for the next
billion or so years.
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly. There
were mastadons found frozen in the arctic with food still in their
stomachs and I heard they died very quickly. There was talk about a
sudden and massive shift of the actual rotational axis of the earth.
Should be an interesting talk considering the amount of energy
needed to change the rotation axis. Any indication as to the
source of this energy?
http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v14/i3/mammoth.asp

His mechanism for explaining the extinction of the woolly mammoth,
supposedly living in a warm climate and then suddenly being quick
frozen, is a catastrophic poleshift to a more vertical Earth axis (to
warm the region up) and then back again to near the present 23œ degrees
(to cool it down). The idea of a quick freeze is based mainly on the
presence of food in the mammoths’ mouths and not enough time for their
last meals to decay in their stomachs. Other popular writers have
accepted and embellished Velikovsky’s ideas.60–62
Post by Everett M. Greene
There's possibly some confusion with the "sudden" shift in the
earth's magnetic field.
Nope, google: mastodons food stomachs arctic axis
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
I'm wondering what might happen, with all the ice cap melting
going on now. Sudden extinction?
Hardly. If it gets rid of NYC and Miami, that would be
an improvement.
All that would take is a catastrophic tsunami.

http://www.rense.com/general56/tsu.htm
--
Have you watched America: Freedom to Fascism yet?
Free video: http://tinyurl.com/snr7b

IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.
Everett M. Greene
2006-12-08 16:39:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly. There
were mastadons found frozen in the arctic with food still in their
stomachs and I heard they died very quickly. There was talk about a
sudden and massive shift of the actual rotational axis of the earth.
Should be an interesting talk considering the amount of energy
needed to change the rotation axis. Any indication as to the
source of this energy?
http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v14/i3/mammoth.asp
His mechanism for explaining the extinction of the woolly mammoth,
supposedly living in a warm climate and then suddenly being quick
frozen, is a catastrophic poleshift to a more vertical Earth axis (to
warm the region up) and then back again to near the present 23½ degrees
(to cool it down). The idea of a quick freeze is based mainly on the
presence of food in the mammoths’ mouths and not enough time for their
last meals to decay in their stomachs. Other popular writers have
accepted and embellished Velikovsky’s ideas.60–62
Food in the stomach of deceased animals is perfectly natural.
Except in the case of death by starvation, they all eat up
until the end.

Get a basic physics book and compute the amount of energy
required to change the rotation axis of the earth. Also
contemplate from where the energy would be received. You
don't casually change the rotation speed and/or axis of
something as massive as a planet or moon.
Ms My Rights
2006-12-09 06:59:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly.
There were mastadons found frozen in the arctic with food still
in their stomachs and I heard they died very quickly. There was
talk about a sudden and massive shift of the actual rotational
axis of the earth.
Should be an interesting talk considering the amount of energy
needed to change the rotation axis. Any indication as to the
source of this energy?
http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v14/i3/mammoth.asp
His mechanism for explaining the extinction of the woolly mammoth,
supposedly living in a warm climate and then suddenly being quick
frozen, is a catastrophic poleshift to a more vertical Earth axis
(to warm the region up) and then back again to near the present 23œ
degrees (to cool it down). The idea of a quick freeze is based
mainly on the presence of food in the mammoths’ mouths and not
enough time for their last meals to decay in their stomachs. Other
popular writers have accepted and embellished Velikovsky’s
ideas.60–62
Food in the stomach of deceased animals is perfectly natural.
Except in the case of death by starvation, they all eat up
until the end.
Get a basic physics book and compute the amount of energy
required to change the rotation axis of the earth. Also
contemplate from where the energy would be received. You
don't casually change the rotation speed and/or axis of
something as massive as a planet or moon.
Did you read about it? Freshly frozen food in the stomachs of mastodons
found in the arctic?
--
Have you watched America: Freedom to Fascism yet?
Free video: http://tinyurl.com/snr7b

IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 15:52:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly. There
were mastadons found frozen in the arctic with food still in their
stomachs and I heard they died very quickly. There was talk about a
sudden and massive shift of the actual rotational axis of the earth.
Should be an interesting talk considering the amount of energy
needed to change the rotation axis. Any indication as to the
source of this energy?
http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v14/i3/mammoth.asp
His mechanism for explaining the extinction of the woolly mammoth,
supposedly living in a warm climate and then suddenly being quick
frozen, is a catastrophic poleshift to a more vertical Earth axis (to
warm the region up) and then back again to near the present 23½ degrees
(to cool it down). The idea of a quick freeze is based mainly on the
presence of food in the mammoths’ mouths and not enough time for their
last meals to decay in their stomachs. Other popular writers have
accepted and embellished Velikovsky’s ideas.60–62
Food in the stomach of deceased animals is perfectly natural.
Except in the case of death by starvation, they all eat up
until the end.
However they don't all get flash frozen in one chunk of ice, do they?
Post by Everett M. Greene
Get a basic physics book and compute the amount of energy
required to change the rotation axis of the earth.
Get a turntable, put a record on it, then put a small bit of modeling
clay on one side, observe.
Post by Everett M. Greene
Also
contemplate from where the energy would be received.
Chandler wobble mean anything to you fool?
Post by Everett M. Greene
You
don't casually change the rotation speed and/or axis of
something as massive as a planet or moon.
Is volcanism casual?

Continental drift?

Earthquakes?

Polar ice melt?

Fool.
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 16:00:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daryl Hunt
4. The tilt of the Earth. Are you aware that the Earth had the
North Pole on the Equator at one time? I am not talking about true
north (that's a spot on the map) I am talking about Magnetic North.
Since the early 1700s, North has moved from northern Canada all the
way until it's almost in Russia. And the earth is wobbling more
these days. In othewords, the Moon moving away (about 2 cm a year)
from the Earth is affecting the Earth less each Millinia. The Earth
relies on the Moon to help stablelize it. As the Earth slowly moves
it's axis, the extreme northern half (including the most temperate)
moves toward where the Equator used to be. Not True Equator (another
spot on the map) but the actual equator that is 90 degrees from the
sun more than any other part. Can we do anything about this? Nope.
Give it another 100,000 years before it's noticable. In fact, it's a
race to see what ends like on earth, the moon no longer there to
stablize the Earth or the Sun going Nova. Not much to worry about
for the next billion or so years.
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly. There were
mastadons found frozen in the arctic with food still in their stomachs
and I heard they died very quickly. There was talk about a sudden and
massive shift of the actual rotational axis of the earth.
Should be an interesting talk considering the amount of energy
needed to change the rotation axis. Any indication as to the
source of this energy?
http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/subs/PSResearch/Strain/SmallPoleShift.htm

Determining The Consequences of Mantle-Slip Pole Shift

As for the consequences of a mantle-slip pole shift, it seems that a
retired engineer may have come pretty close to explaining the
possibilities. Mac B. Strain published his approach to determining the
consequences of an axis shift in 1997. His book is entitled, "The
Earth's Shifting Axis."3 Strain considered only a one-degree shift in
the pole, not the 10-degree shift that I had suggested in Coming Earth
Changes. Also, Strain's axis-shift direction follows a path down the
70°W meridian, not the 79.2°W meridian determined by Gross and Vondrák
two years after Strain had published his book. For our first
approximation to pole-shift consequences (i.e., Earth changes) we will
assume that Strain's 70° W shift path is equivalent to the Gross and
Vondrák 79.2°W drift path.

In presenting his dynamic axis theory, Strain first addressed the
response of ocean waters to changes in centrifugal forces created by a
shift of the spin axis, while assuming all other layers of the upper
Earth were rigid. His calculations for a 1º axis shift of the north pole
southward along the 70ºW meridian were intended only as an illustration
of how the oceans would respond to an axis shift, not as a specific
prediction. Strain then addressed the response of Earth's plastic and
liquid layers below Earth's crust to changes in centrifugal forces.
Unfortunately, there is an unknown lag time between ocean-water response
and the much slower response of Earth's liquid outer core, plastic
mantle, and semi-brittle crust to a shift-induced change in centrifugal
forces. The response of the aqueous geoid4 at any point on Earth can be
calculated to within a foot or less. The crust's response, however,
depends upon many unknown factors, such as the rate of deformation of
inner Earth materials to newly-imposed centrifugal forces, and the
thickness, weight, and strength of the crust itself. Theoretically,
given enough time, the crust and the sea-level geoid will respond
equally and there will be no changes in land elevations. Initially,
however, the land elevation changes that we calculate herein may all be
expected to occur, immediately after a pole shift.

As we shall see, most of the Earth changes mentioned in the readings
follow from the crustal deformations and changes in sea-level predicted
by Strain's analysis of the consequences of his one-degree axis shift.

Readers may be concerned that we use Strain's analysis of the
Earth-change results of an axis shift to explain the Earth-change
consequences of our mantle-slip type of pole shift. But it doesn't
matter that Strain's axis-shift analysis is used for what we believe to
be a physically impossible model for pole shift. This is so because his
shift analysis methodology will yield the same consequences whether it
is applied to either the second or the third type of pole shift, as
discussed above under "Three Types of Pole Shift."



Strain's Shift Methodology Applied to a One-Degree Pole Shift

To explain the effects of a mantle slip on Earth's crust, and the
distribution of land and sea, we begin with the simple case of a
one-degree shift in the latitude of the north pole, from 90°N to 89°N.
The main points of Strain's analysis are as follows:

1) Consider a slice of the Earth through the rotation axis. This slice
is described by a great circle on Earth's surface. Because the poles
shift along this longitudinal (meridional) circle, we will refer to it
as the shift meridian.





Fig. 2. Cross-section of the Earth showing two equatorial bulges along a
shift-meridian great circle. The north and south poles have moved from N
to N´, and S to S´, respectively, as the Earth's mantle has shifted 1°
clockwise. Centrifugal forces thrust ocean waters toward the pre-and
post-shift equators, forming equatorial bulges.PS= pole shift MS =
mantle slip
NE = new equator FE = former equator
ES = equator shift Arrows = centrifugal forces
FE -NE = shift of equator and the equatorial bulge
Pre-shift equatorial bulges = blue circle Post-shift equatorial bulges
= red circle.






2) Centrifugal forces produced by the spinning Earth cause ocean waters
to move toward the equator. (See Fig. 2) An equatorial radius is about
13.5 miles (71,280 ft) longer than a polar radius. Earth's crust is also
found to extend somewhat farther at the equator than it does along a
polar radius. This is due to centrifugal force acting on molten or
plastic mantle and (or) core material underlying the crust.

3) Assuming that the axial shift in Figure 2 is exactly one degree,
Strain's analysis is now advanced by reference to Figure 3.




Fig. 3. Mechanism and consequences of a mantle-slip pole shift.
NN-NS = Earth's rotation axis, fixed in space
FN = former north pole NN = new north pole
FE = former equator NE = new, post-pole-shift equator
PS = pole-shift track over Earth's surface MS = mantle slip direction
W, X = neutral meridional and equatorial great circle traces
(theoretically, sea-level does not change at W or X, because latitudes
have not changed there).


Positive quadrants (see text) are W-FN-NE-X and W-FS-NE-X. They exhibit
increased centrifugal forces, higher sea level, and, therefore,
decreased elevation of land features relative to the mean-sea-level
geoid. Negative quadrants exhibit lower sea level and elevated land
surfaces.



Here we see that point FN at the ground surface on the shift meridian
has moved from the former north pole to point NN, the location of the
shifted pole. Sea level at NN is now suddenly lower than it was
originally. Strain computes (in his Table B-1) that the lowering of the
original (sea-level) geoid at NN is 65 ft. Note that Earth's geoid for
the crust or ocean surface at the new south pole (NS) is also 65 ft
lower than it was before mantle slip. At this point, it is useful to
explain Strain's term, quadrant.

Following a pole shift, two quadrants of Earth's surface will experience
lower latitudes at all pre-shift points. These points will also
experience higher sea levels and flooding. Such quadrants are referred
to as positive quadrants. Such quadrants also display higher elevations
of plastic or liquid mantle and core material that puts Earth's crust
under tension.

The other two quadrants are termed negative quadrants. Points on Earth's
surface prior to pole shift suddenly experience higher latitudes after
the shift. This leads to lower sea levels at the post-shift points and
to draining of lowlands. Beneath the crust, molten or plastic rock is
slowly lowered as well, placing the crust under compressive forces.

Maximum changes in surface elevations occur at the center points of each
quadrant; that is, at a point 45.5° north or south on a given shift
meridian. Elevation changes decrease to zero at the meridional and
equatorial great circles. For a rigid crust and a 1° pole shift, 1238 ft
is the maximum elevation or lowering at the center point of each of
Earth's four quadrants.

At latitudes all along the shift meridian between the new north pole and
the new equator, it is now possible to compute the changes in surface
elevations of the ocean or land. If we proceed along W-FN-NE-X, we see
that former points between W and X are now, post-shift, experiencing
higher elevations of the sea-level geoid, and lower land elevations,
than they were before. These higher geoid elevations define a positive
quadrant.

Again, negative quadrants, like X-FE-NN-W (Fig 3), are those in the
direction of pole shift. There, centrifugal forces are reduced at former
pre-shift points at all latitudes within the quadrant; sea level is
lowered; and ocean water is withdrawn from portions of previous land areas.



Earth Changes Caused by a 1° Pole Shift to 89°N and 70°W

We now use Strain's example of a pole shift down the 70°W meridian of
just one degree (to 89°N). This will allow us to see how the sea-level
geoid changes correspond with several of the Earth changes mentioned in
Cayce's readings. It matters only a little that Strain did not use Gross
and Vondrák's estimate of 79.2°W for the present pole-drift direction in
his analysis. The 9.2° difference has only a small effect on the broad
conclusions drawn.

Using the notion of geoid change discussed above, and the shift meridian
values in Strain's Table B-1 (that assumes a rigid crust), it is
possible to calculate approximate elevation changes for many points on
Earth for a hypothetical 1° pole shift. It is fascinating to compare
Strain's results with the Cayce readings' Earth changes. The comparisons
are reminiscent of the story of the author who wrote about the sinking
of the Titanic years before it happened. Strain is akin to that author,
and it is about the readings' pole shift and Earth changes that he is
writing -- before they happen.

Strain begins his analysis of the results of the pole shift with an
examination of altered land and sea configurations. The shift meridian
follows 70°W for the Western Hemisphere and 110°E for the Eastern
Hemisphere. The continent of Asia falls into a "positive quadrant where
the higher geoid floods much of the lowlands around the edge of the
continent" (Strain, p. 38). This flooding of coastal lowlands around
Asia includes the WWII-ravaged Pacific islands of Wake, Midway, Guam,
Okinawa, and the Philippines. Included also are both WWII and later
battlefield regions like Korea, China, Japan, Vietnam, Kuwait and the
Persian Gulf countries. Tokyo would be 952 ft. lower than now, and so
most of Japan's lowlands would be flooded. All of the former USSR war
cities would be lowered (relative to a rising sea-level geoid) and some
would be flooded.
Post by Everett M. Greene
There's possibly some confusion with the "sudden" shift in the
earth's magnetic field.
Not really:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4520982.stm

Magnetic north pole drifting fast

Alaska could lose its northern lights, scientists say

The Earth's north magnetic pole is drifting away from North America so
fast that it could end up in Siberia within 50 years, scientists have said.

The shift could mean that Alaska will lose its northern lights, or
auroras, which might then be more visible in areas of Siberia and Europe.

The magnetic poles are different from geographic poles, the surface
points marking the axis of Earth's rotation.

Magnetic poles are known to migrate and, occasionally, swap places.

"This may be part of a normal oscillation and it will eventually migrate
back toward Canada," Joseph Stoner, a palaeomagnetist at Oregon State
University, told a meeting of the American Geophysical Union (AGU) in
San Francisco.

Wandering poles

Previous studies have shown that the strength of the Earth's magnetic
shield has decreased 10% over the past 150 years.

During the same period, the north magnetic pole wandered about 1,100km
(685 miles) into the Arctic, according to the new analysis.

The rate of the magnetic pole's movement has increased in the last
century compared with fairly steady movement in the previous four
centuries, the Oregon researchers said.

The Oregon team examined the sediment record from several Arctic lakes.
Since the sediments record the Earth's magnetic field at the time,
scientists used carbon dating to track changes in the magnetic field.

They found that the north magnetic field shifted significantly in the
last thousand years. It generally migrated between northern Canada and
Siberia, but has occasionally moved in other directions.
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
I'm wondering what might happen, with all the ice cap melting
going on now. Sudden extinction?
Hardly. If it gets rid of NYC and Miami, that would be
an improvement.
Anything that makes your DNA extinct can be seen as a blessing, esad.
Ms My Rights
2006-12-15 18:37:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daryl Hunt
4. The tilt of the Earth. Are you aware that the Earth had the
North Pole on the Equator at one time? I am not talking about
true north (that's a spot on the map) I am talking about Magnetic
North. Since the early 1700s, North has moved from northern Canada
all the way until it's almost in Russia. And the earth is
wobbling more these days. In othewords, the Moon moving away
(about 2 cm a year) from the Earth is affecting the Earth less
each Millinia. The Earth relies on the Moon to help stablelize
it. As the Earth slowly moves it's axis, the extreme northern
half (including the most temperate) moves toward where the Equator
used to be. Not True Equator (another spot on the map) but the
actual equator that is 90 degrees from the sun more than any other
part. Can we do anything about this? Nope. Give it another
100,000 years before it's noticable. In fact, it's a race to see
what ends like on earth, the moon no longer there to stablize the
Earth or the Sun going Nova. Not much to worry about for the next
billion or so years.
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly. There
were mastadons found frozen in the arctic with food still in their
stomachs and I heard they died very quickly. There was talk about a
sudden and massive shift of the actual rotational axis of the
earth.
Should be an interesting talk considering the amount of energy
needed to change the rotation axis. Any indication as to the
source of this energy?
http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/subs/PSResearch/Strain/SmallPoleShif
t.htm
Determining The Consequences of Mantle-Slip Pole Shift
As for the consequences of a mantle-slip pole shift, it seems that a
retired engineer may have come pretty close to explaining the
possibilities. Mac B. Strain published his approach to determining
the consequences of an axis shift in 1997. His book is entitled, "The
Earth's Shifting Axis."3 Strain considered only a one-degree shift
in the pole, not the 10-degree shift that I had suggested in Coming
Earth Changes. Also, Strain's axis-shift direction follows a path
down the 70°W meridian, not the 79.2°W meridian determined by Gross
and Vondrák two years after Strain had published his book. For our
first approximation to pole-shift consequences (i.e., Earth changes)
we will assume that Strain's 70° W shift path is equivalent to the
Gross and Vondrák 79.2°W drift path.
In presenting his dynamic axis theory, Strain first addressed the
response of ocean waters to changes in centrifugal forces created by
a shift of the spin axis, while assuming all other layers of the
upper Earth were rigid. His calculations for a 1º axis shift of the
north pole southward along the 70ºW meridian were intended only as an
illustration of how the oceans would respond to an axis shift, not as
a specific prediction. Strain then addressed the response of Earth's
plastic and liquid layers below Earth's crust to changes in
centrifugal forces. Unfortunately, there is an unknown lag time
between ocean-water response and the much slower response of Earth's
liquid outer core, plastic mantle, and semi-brittle crust to a
shift-induced change in centrifugal forces. The response of the
aqueous geoid4 at any point on Earth can be calculated to within a
foot or less. The crust's response, however, depends upon many
unknown factors, such as the rate of deformation of inner Earth
materials to newly-imposed centrifugal forces, and the thickness,
weight, and strength of the crust itself. Theoretically, given enough
time, the crust and the sea-level geoid will respond equally and
there will be no changes in land elevations. Initially, however, the
land elevation changes that we calculate herein may all be expected
to occur, immediately after a pole shift.
...

So what's the bottom line of this dissertation? Will there be massive
shifts in the earth in the coming decades?

Massive rapid upheavals?

And we don't even know if man is causing this, or global warming is
natural, etc...

Either way it's too late to stop it. Even if they stopped obstructing
nuclear power, they figure it would take 50 years to power this whole
country with it. And that's if the national will was there to actually
do it and no keep messing around with oil politics etc., which could
destroy the world a lot sooner.
--
Have you watched America: Freedom to Fascism yet?
Free video: http://tinyurl.com/snr7b

IF YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR LIBERTARIANS, YOU'RE ONLY VOTING FOR YOUR
RULERS! If the government wasn't allowed to initiate force, the vote
wouldn't be that important. It's only important because they can.
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 18:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Sam Brown
Post by Everett M. Greene
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daryl Hunt
4. The tilt of the Earth. Are you aware that the Earth had the
North Pole on the Equator at one time? I am not talking about
true north (that's a spot on the map) I am talking about Magnetic
North. Since the early 1700s, North has moved from northern Canada
all the way until it's almost in Russia. And the earth is
wobbling more these days. In othewords, the Moon moving away
(about 2 cm a year) from the Earth is affecting the Earth less
each Millinia. The Earth relies on the Moon to help stablelize
it. As the Earth slowly moves it's axis, the extreme northern
half (including the most temperate) moves toward where the Equator
used to be. Not True Equator (another spot on the map) but the
actual equator that is 90 degrees from the sun more than any other
part. Can we do anything about this? Nope. Give it another
100,000 years before it's noticable. In fact, it's a race to see
what ends like on earth, the moon no longer there to stablize the
Earth or the Sun going Nova. Not much to worry about for the next
billion or so years.
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly. There
were mastadons found frozen in the arctic with food still in their
stomachs and I heard they died very quickly. There was talk about a
sudden and massive shift of the actual rotational axis of the
earth.
Should be an interesting talk considering the amount of energy
needed to change the rotation axis. Any indication as to the
source of this energy?
http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/subs/PSResearch/Strain/SmallPoleShif
t.htm
Determining The Consequences of Mantle-Slip Pole Shift
As for the consequences of a mantle-slip pole shift, it seems that a
retired engineer may have come pretty close to explaining the
possibilities. Mac B. Strain published his approach to determining
the consequences of an axis shift in 1997. His book is entitled, "The
Earth's Shifting Axis."3 Strain considered only a one-degree shift
in the pole, not the 10-degree shift that I had suggested in Coming
Earth Changes. Also, Strain's axis-shift direction follows a path
down the 70°W meridian, not the 79.2°W meridian determined by Gross
and Vondrák two years after Strain had published his book. For our
first approximation to pole-shift consequences (i.e., Earth changes)
we will assume that Strain's 70° W shift path is equivalent to the
Gross and Vondrák 79.2°W drift path.
In presenting his dynamic axis theory, Strain first addressed the
response of ocean waters to changes in centrifugal forces created by
a shift of the spin axis, while assuming all other layers of the
upper Earth were rigid. His calculations for a 1º axis shift of the
north pole southward along the 70ºW meridian were intended only as an
illustration of how the oceans would respond to an axis shift, not as
a specific prediction. Strain then addressed the response of Earth's
plastic and liquid layers below Earth's crust to changes in
centrifugal forces. Unfortunately, there is an unknown lag time
between ocean-water response and the much slower response of Earth's
liquid outer core, plastic mantle, and semi-brittle crust to a
shift-induced change in centrifugal forces. The response of the
aqueous geoid4 at any point on Earth can be calculated to within a
foot or less. The crust's response, however, depends upon many
unknown factors, such as the rate of deformation of inner Earth
materials to newly-imposed centrifugal forces, and the thickness,
weight, and strength of the crust itself. Theoretically, given enough
time, the crust and the sea-level geoid will respond equally and
there will be no changes in land elevations. Initially, however, the
land elevation changes that we calculate herein may all be expected
to occur, immediately after a pole shift.
...
So what's the bottom line of this dissertation? Will there be massive
shifts in the earth in the coming decades?
Massive rapid upheavals?
And we don't even know if man is causing this, or global warming is
natural, etc...
Either way it's too late to stop it. Even if they stopped obstructing
nuclear power, they figure it would take 50 years to power this whole
country with it. And that's if the national will was there to actually
do it and no keep messing around with oil politics etc., which could
destroy the world a lot sooner.
Precisely.
Daryl Hunt
2006-12-08 01:20:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daryl Hunt
4. The tilt of the Earth. Are you aware that the Earth had the
North Pole on the Equator at one time? I am not talking about true
north (that's a spot on the map) I am talking about Magnetic North.
Since the early 1700s, North has moved from northern Canada all the
way until it's almost in Russia. And the earth is wobbling more
these days. In othewords, the Moon moving away (about 2 cm a year)
from the Earth is affecting the Earth less each Millinia. The Earth
relies on the Moon to help stablelize it. As the Earth slowly moves
it's axis, the extreme northern half (including the most temperate)
moves toward where the Equator used to be. Not True Equator (another
spot on the map) but the actual equator that is 90 degrees from the
sun more than any other part. Can we do anything about this? Nope.
Give it another 100,000 years before it's noticable. In fact, it's a
race to see what ends like on earth, the moon no longer there to
stablize the Earth or the Sun going Nova. Not much to worry about
for the next billion or so years.
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly.
We could start with you :)
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 15:55:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daryl Hunt
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daryl Hunt
4. The tilt of the Earth. Are you aware that the Earth had the
North Pole on the Equator at one time? I am not talking about true
north (that's a spot on the map) I am talking about Magnetic North.
Since the early 1700s, North has moved from northern Canada all the
way until it's almost in Russia. And the earth is wobbling more
these days. In othewords, the Moon moving away (about 2 cm a year)
from the Earth is affecting the Earth less each Millinia. The Earth
relies on the Moon to help stablelize it. As the Earth slowly moves
it's axis, the extreme northern half (including the most temperate)
moves toward where the Equator used to be. Not True Equator (another
spot on the map) but the actual equator that is 90 degrees from the
sun more than any other part. Can we do anything about this? Nope.
Give it another 100,000 years before it's noticable. In fact, it's a
race to see what ends like on earth, the moon no longer there to
stablize the Earth or the Sun going Nova. Not much to worry about
for the next billion or so years.
We should be more concerned with wiping humanity out quickly.
We could start with you :)
Life with no comedic value would be harsh, I vote no.
Sam Brown
2006-12-15 16:04:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daryl Hunt
Post by Ms My Rights
Post by Daniel Packman
Post by Ms My Rights
We should get Al Gore to come out to Denver tomorrow morning at 4 AM
and give a speech about what an urgent emergency "global warming" is.
He should give it in Denver's city park, where the temp is supposed
to be 5 degrees at that time, and there's still 6" of snow on the
ground.
Are you implying that global warming is a hoax because
of a locally cold day?
Saying that man causes global warming is a hoax perpetrated by
government agencies that want funding to keep people panicked about it.
There are many factors. Automobile emissions, factory emissions, cutting
down the rain forest, paving over water sheds, and even the changing in the
tilt of the earth.
While almost all reasons for global warming can be attributed to Man (and
ill informed or uncaring Females as well), some are natural.
1. Fossil Fuel Pollutants. Yah, Yah, each car does less polluting these
days as compared to 40 years ago. That sounds nice but there are many times
more cars today on the road and it's still the leading pollutant. It wasn't
40 years ago, that went to Industry that has cleaned up by quite a margin.
2. Industry. The United States is no longer the #1 Industrial Pollutant.
In fact, the US isn't even second. The first and second place goes to India
and China. So keep right on buying those imports.
3. Volcanos. Okay, this one can't be helped by man. Man just shouldn't be
adding to natural disasters to the degree Man is.
4. The tilt of the Earth. Are you aware that the Earth had the North Pole
on the Equator at one time? I am not talking about true north (that's a
spot on the map) I am talking about Magnetic North. Since the early 1700s,
North has moved from northern Canada all the way until it's almost in
Russia. And the earth is wobbling more these days. In othewords, the Moon
moving away (about 2 cm a year) from the Earth is affecting the Earth less
each Millinia. The Earth relies on the Moon to help stablelize it. As the
Earth slowly moves it's axis, the extreme northern half (including the most
temperate) moves toward where the Equator used to be. Not True Equator
(another spot on the map) but the actual equator that is 90 degrees from the
sun more than any other part. Can we do anything about this? Nope. Give
it another 100,000 years before it's noticable. In fact, it's a race to see
what ends like on earth, the moon no longer there to stablize the Earth or
the Sun going Nova. Not much to worry about for the next billion or so
years.
There are other reasons but most are manmade problems that contribute.
Saying that Man is causing Global Warming is like saying Cigarattes cause
Cancer. They don't but the certain contribute to it.
May I ask what kind of vehicle to you go back and forth to work or play? I
haven't purchased a single gallon of gas since Nov 2004. I drive electrics.
My daily vehicle is: http://i70west.com/lsebicycle/LSEBM1.html . I don't
condemn others that drive fossil fueled vehicles but each of us must take it
on the chin. Electrics are cleaner but have other drawbacks. Some can live
with those drawbacks and others can't. Many just use the drawbacks as an
excuse. I don't.
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/headline_universe/earth_science/stories_2003/mag_reverse.html&edu=high

Hold on Tight! Earth's Magnetic Field May Be Preparing to Flip!
News story originally written on May 20, 2003

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/12/12/magnetic.poles.ap/index.html

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- The strength of the Earth's magnetic field has
decreased 10 percent over the past 150 years

http://geography.about.com/od/physicalgeography/a/magnetic.htm

The earth's magnetic field has reversed approximately 170 times over the
last 100 million years. The intensity of the magnetic field has been
decreasing over time since it has been measured
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