Colorado Against Predatory Traffic Fines PETITION

[Anonymous]

See and join the Yahoo Group at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CO_Traffic_Fines_Law_Petition/

I hadn't gotten a traffic ticket in years but found myself in a
school zone that didn't even have a yellow flashing light, with
fine print on the sign that said 20 MPH between 2-4 PM. There
were no kids present at the time, and there was no harm done but
a Denver cop pulled me over and gave me a ticket for going over
the speed limit. When I saw the ticket, I almost died! $230 if I
went to court, and 4 points on my license!!!

But if I paid the ticket, they would bargain it down to "only"
$190 and 2 points!

Then it occurred to me, that being no harm was done, this was
purely predatory. It was the city of Denver using the "it's for
the children" argument to rake in really big bucks to the city's
coffers! Since then, I've been told that traffic fines in our
state have been quadrupled in recent years! Predatory!

I'm a libertarian and am against victimless "crime" laws anyway.
My going a couple of miles per hour over the speed limit HARMED
NO ONE! Why should I have to be victimized by predatory
initiation of force against me by the state?! I've heard of
similar cases with traffic cams.

So I've started this petition and we're now trying to get as many
Colorado state residents as possible to sign it, so that we might
get a law passed, to limit such ticketing and fines and prevent
them from being abused in a predatory manner, in other words with
the state preying on citizens for money.

It's worded as follows:

To: Colorado State Legislature

I am a full time resident of Colorado and am fed up and disgusted
with predatory and abusive traffic ticket fines. This petition
demands that the state of Colorado pass a statewide law limiting
all traffic fines in the state, in which no harm to human or
animal life, or property damage is done, to a maximum fine of no
more than $20, payable by mail, and a maximum of no more than 1
point on the person's license.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

Please sign it at the link below.

http://www.petitiononline.com/Co332006/petition.html

[Chas]

......It was the city of Denver using the "it's for
the children" argument to rake in really big bucks to the city's
coffers!

It *is* for the children, and rightly so.
There is a lot of activity around a school- children don't know traffic
regs, and they're subject to dart out from between cars; cross against the
light if they see Mom or a kitty; running after a chum or a ball.
It's *your* responsibility to pay attention if you're going to operate a
multi-ton vehicle at any speed.
I hit a kid like that- no injury, just bumped her a little. She darted out
from between two parked cars; I was observing the 20mph speed limit and
*still* only had an instant to react.
Tore me the fuck up- terrifying/horrifying. I can't express to you how I
feel.
No charges or anything- just the memory of this beautiful little girl, for
an instant....
Just slow down and pay attention.

Chas

[Anonymous]

Post by Chas

......It was the city of Denver using the "it's for
the children" argument to rake in really big bucks to the
city's coffers!

It *is* for the children, and rightly so.
There is a lot of activity around a school- children don't
know traffic regs, and they're subject to dart out from
between cars; cross against the light if they see Mom or a
kitty; running after a chum or a ball.

Bullshit. If kids are that small and untrained, the parents
should have them by the hand and be leading them around.

In fact a day later I was driving about a block outside of
another school zone and 3 kids were goofing around with one
pushing another into the street in front of my car. So a lot of
good school zones do.

Post by Chas
It's *your*
responsibility to pay attention if you're going to operate a
multi-ton vehicle at any speed.
I hit a kid like that- no injury, just bumped her a little.
She darted out from between two parked cars; I was observing
the 20mph speed limit and *still* only had an instant to
react. Tore me the fuck up- terrifying/horrifying. I can't
express to you how I feel.

Wasn't your fault. Parental responsibility!

Post by Chas
No charges or anything- just the memory of this beautiful
little girl, for an instant....
Just slow down and pay attention.

Punishing people for imaginary victimless "crimes" is wrong.

But I know you're a socialist and will disagree.

[Chas]

Post by Anonymous
Bullshit. If kids are that small and untrained, the parents
should have them by the hand and be leading them around.

You want to kill a child over that point?

Chas

[Anonymous]

Post by Chas

Post by Anonymous
Bullshit. If kids are that small and untrained, the parents
should have them by the hand and be leading them around.

You want to kill a child over that point?
Chas

Look, if people don't look after their kids, anything could kill
them. The nanny state can't protect shit.

But I know, you're a comrade, right?

[Chas]

Post by Anonymous

Post by Chas

Post by Anonymous
Bullshit. If kids are that small and untrained, the parents
should have them by the hand and be leading them around.

You want to kill a child over that point?

Look, if people don't look after their kids, anything could kill
them. The nanny state can't protect shit.

So the answer is 'yes'?
How very sad.

Chas

[Anonymous]

Post by Chas

Post by Anonymous

Post by Chas

Post by Anonymous
Bullshit. If kids are that small and untrained, the parents
should have them by the hand and be leading them around.

You want to kill a child over that point?

Look, if people don't look after their kids, anything could kill
them. The nanny state can't protect shit.

So the answer is 'yes'?
How very sad.
Chas

No, I wouldn't want to kill a kid, and take great care not to, but
going a few miles over the speed limit has nothing to do with it.

If parents let their kids run in traffic and don't teach them any
better, it's their fault not mine.

[Ms Liberty]

Post by Chas

Post by Anonymous

Post by Chas

Post by Anonymous
Bullshit. If kids are that small and untrained, the
parents should have them by the hand and be leading them
around.

You want to kill a child over that point?

Look, if people don't look after their kids, anything could
kill them. The nanny state can't protect shit.

So the answer is 'yes'?
How very sad.
Chas

So why do you think it's ok for the government to initiate force
against people?
--
Ms Liberty - United States of America

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. – Thomas
Jefferson, part of proposed Virginia Constitution 1776.

50% of U.S. households own a gun but few people ever practice
with them. Your gun is not a lucky rabbit's foot that will bestow
protection on you, just by keeping it around. If you own one, you
have a moral obligation to yourself to learn safety, get training
and learn how to use it, then stay in practice so you don't
forget and get rusty. Take as much training as you can afford and
practice regularly. After all, you are the militia.

[Chas]

Post by Ms Liberty

Post by Chas

Post by Chas
You want to kill a child over that point?

So the answer is 'yes'?
How very sad.

So why do you think it's ok for the government to initiate force
against people?

nonsense question, Mel.
What does 'ok' mean in this context? or 'government'? What does 'initiate'
mean here, and how does it apply to 'force' (whatever that describes)? and
which 'people'?
Your question is so poorly framed that it makes no sense, in any
intellectual application of the word.

[Ms Liberty]

Post by Chas

Post by Ms Liberty

Post by Chas

Post by Chas
You want to kill a child over that point?

So the answer is 'yes'?
How very sad.

So why do you think it's ok for the government to initiate
force against people?

nonsense question, Mel.
What does 'ok' mean in this context? or 'government'? What
does 'initiate' mean here, and how does it apply to 'force'
(whatever that describes)? and which 'people'?
Your question is so poorly framed that it makes no sense, in
any intellectual application of the word.

Well if you don't comprehend any of that, there's no use, I
suppose.
--
Ms Liberty - United States of America

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. – Thomas
Jefferson, part of proposed Virginia Constitution 1776.

50% of U.S. households own a gun but few people ever practice
with them. Your gun is not a lucky rabbit's foot that will bestow
protection on you, just by keeping it around. If you own one, you
have a moral obligation to yourself to learn safety, get training
and learn how to use it, then stay in practice so you don't
forget and get rusty. Take as much training as you can afford and
practice regularly. After all, you are the militia.

[Chas]

Post by Ms Liberty

Post by Chas
Your question is so poorly framed that it makes no sense, in
any intellectual application of the word.

Well if you don't comprehend any of that, there's no use, I
suppose.

Sorry-
didn't mean to strain your agenda.

Chas

[Chas]

Post by Anonymous
No, I wouldn't want to kill a kid, and take great care not to, but
going a few miles over the speed limit has nothing to do with it.

yeah it does- even 10mph difference could make the difference between a
little bump and going under the bumper.

Post by Anonymous
If parents let their kids run in traffic and don't teach them any
better, it's their fault not mine.

A school is where kids gather in such numbers, that anything is subject to
happen- kids is kids.
Hitting a kid is *your fault*- I don't care if he falls out of the sky on
you.
I think it ought to be justifiable homicide for the first adult who sees it
just to kill you out of hand- certainly the parent; momentary lapse of
restraint in outrage.
And, if plain sanity doesn't appeal to you, remembering that fine sure will.

Chas

[Anonymous]

Post by Chas

Post by Anonymous
No, I wouldn't want to kill a kid, and take great care not
to, but going a few miles over the speed limit has nothing to
do with it.

yeah it does- even 10mph difference could make the difference
between a little bump and going under the bumper.

Post by Anonymous
If parents let their kids run in traffic and don't teach them
any better, it's their fault not mine.

A school is where kids gather in such numbers, that anything
is subject to happen- kids is kids.
Hitting a kid is *your fault*- I don't care if he falls out of
the sky on you.
I think it ought to be justifiable homicide for the first
adult who sees it just to kill you out of hand- certainly the
parent; momentary lapse of restraint in outrage.
And, if plain sanity doesn't appeal to you, remembering that
fine sure will.

State worshipping idiot.

[Relsieg d'Arb]

--
Relsieg d'Arb

~~~

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --
"WOW... what a ride!"

Post by Chas

Post by Anonymous
No, I wouldn't want to kill a kid, and take great care not to, but
going a few miles over the speed limit has nothing to do with it.

yeah it does- even 10mph difference could make the difference between a
little bump and going under the bumper.

Post by Anonymous
If parents let their kids run in traffic and don't teach them any
better, it's their fault not mine.

A school is where kids gather in such numbers, that anything is subject to
happen- kids is kids.
Hitting a kid is *your fault*- I don't care if he falls out of the sky on
you.
I think it ought to be justifiable homicide for the first adult who sees
it just to kill you out of hand- certainly the parent; momentary lapse of
restraint in outrage.
And, if plain sanity doesn't appeal to you, remembering that fine sure will.
Chas

"Hitting a kid is *your fault*- I don't care if he falls out of the sky on
you."

Um... no, it would be the kids fault... the kid hit *me*. And if the little
darling died as a result, I'd sue hell out of the kids parents for the
mental duress I suffered because they couldn't be bothered to keep tabs on
their off-spring.

[b***@buzzbeer.com]

: See and join the Yahoo Group at:
: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CO_Traffic_Fines_Law_Petition/

: I hadn't gotten a traffic ticket in years but found myself in a
: school zone that didn't even have a yellow flashing light, with
: fine print on the sign that said 20 MPH between 2-4 PM. There
: were no kids present at the time, and there was no harm done but
: a Denver cop pulled me over and gave me a ticket for going over
: the speed limit. When I saw the ticket, I almost died! $230 if I
: went to court, and 4 points on my license!!!

: But if I paid the ticket, they would bargain it down to "only"
: $190 and 2 points!

: Then it occurred to me, that being no harm was done, this was
: purely predatory. It was the city of Denver using the "it's for
: the children" argument to rake in really big bucks to the city's
: coffers! Since then, I've been told that traffic fines in our
: state have been quadrupled in recent years! Predatory!

: I'm a libertarian and am against victimless "crime" laws anyway.
: My going a couple of miles per hour over the speed limit HARMED
: NO ONE! Why should I have to be victimized by predatory
: initiation of force against me by the state?! I've heard of
: similar cases with traffic cams.

: So I've started this petition and we're now trying to get as many
: Colorado state residents as possible to sign it, so that we might
: get a law passed, to limit such ticketing and fines and prevent
: them from being abused in a predatory manner, in other words with
: the state preying on citizens for money.

: It's worded as follows:

: To: Colorado State Legislature

: I am a full time resident of Colorado and am fed up and disgusted
: with predatory and abusive traffic ticket fines. This petition
: demands that the state of Colorado pass a statewide law limiting
: all traffic fines in the state, in which no harm to human or
: animal life, or property damage is done, to a maximum fine of no
: more than $20, payable by mail, and a maximum of no more than 1
: point on the person's license.

: Sincerely,

: The Undersigned

: Please sign it at the link below.

: http://www.petitiononline.com/Co332006/petition.html

For that matter, drunk driving laws are predatory as well. I never killed
or hurt anyone after drinking a couple! The law is rediculous.